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Ok - I'll go first. I'm working on the Cherry Lane transcription to John Denver's "Country Roads". I'm comfortable with fingerpicking - but there's so many different changes to the patterns in this song it's giving me a real challenge to memorize it and play it fluently. Now I know I don't have to play the arrangement as in that transcription - I'm not even sure John came up with that arrangement, but if he did, it's really brilliant, giving that "simple" song an understated sophistication.
Also working on "Cat's in the Cradle" transcription, and that one is also tricky.
Now I know I don't have to play the transcription as written, and most people would have no idea, for most of these fingerpicking songs - but it's the fine, subtle picking patterns and rhythms that make the overall song/arrangement sound so good (IMHO). Also on this song, the key really confuses me. The chords to the verse are:
A_________ C_________ D _________ A
My child.... Came to... usual way
What key is this ? I suppose maybe A with a borrowed chord C from A minor ? How would you solo or improvise over that when you reached the C chord ? In the chorus you have the chords
A _________ G_________ C _________ D
And the cat's... Silver spoon Little boy blue....
Again -what key ? A with some chords borrowed from A minor ? And same question ....
Also - what other songs use a similar progression as that in the Cat's in the Cradle ?
Last edited by Joe Videtto2; 11/07/24 05:07 PM.
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Your question about the Key for Harry Chapin's Cats in the cradle is classic and has been discussed before. "...The A, C, and D are based around fitting the A minor pentatonic melody. Basically blues let's you get away with mashing any major chord into that scale. The walk down from G is a temporary modulation to G major, which as a key isn't very far from A mixolydian, which I'd put the overall song in. Now in the G major section normally the walk down would take you from C to Em, then Am, D, G. But at this point he's strongly established A major as the home chord. If the song were in G, the A major would sound like a secondary dominant pulling to D7, but it doesn't. Your brain lets that short section in G jump right back to A." https://www.reddit.com/r/musictheory/comments/65t0ge/why_does_cats_in_the_cradle_work/
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The Six Wives of Henry VIII (Wakeman/Yes)
Hopefully don't have to explain why
I had to buy the transcription and actually read some parts of it to learn it. Felt like I was back in school again.
Last edited by rharv; 11/08/24 04:09 PM.
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Circa 1962, Chuck Berry's Johnny B Goode!
I actually ruined that album trying to learn all of those licks!
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In the key of A, all of these chords CAN sound right (to me), depending on context: A, B, C, D, E, F, G. I find the slippery harmonic shifts like C# to C a bit mind bending and (potentially) a lot of fun. Posted this tune a few months ago that exercised most of these ideas, just in the key of G. The "wrong" chords helped me express the disorienting effect of being lost in a big city rainstorm...
Last edited by DC Ron; 11/08/24 06:12 PM.
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Hummmm... I'd have to say.... Saddle Tramp* by Charlie Daniels (*the second part) .... and Green Grass & High Tides by The Outlaws. I was in a country rock band at the time with two guitars, bass and drums and we were playing a lot of the songs of that era. And a couple of the songs off Frampton Comes Alive. Those Frampton songs were just fun tunes to learn. One day while I was working on one of the songs on that album, I heard a knock at my door followed by "open up, Police". I won't bore you with the details since I've told it before, but the elevator version is it was a drummer and a bass player from a working band. They came in and listened and invited me to jam with them that night at a local club. I ended up being hired as a full time lead guitarist for their band.
I don't know that any of them were particularly difficult to learn. Challenging was probably a better word if you wanted to learn it note for note. I took a few days of listening and learning to pull them off. Another fun tune was Sultans of Swing because it has lots of little tasty fills throughout.
If you're not familiar with the songs I named.... go listen to them on YouTube.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Harlem Nocturne, - the Viscounts version.
I was a kid. Back then, we didn't have the written music resources we do now. The only things available were at the rack in the music store. There were no fake books, except the illegal ones traded by the then older, pro, musicians. So I learned it by ear.
For the sax it's in F#, which for a not yet mature saxophonist, is a * tricky key.
I wore out and eventually damaged the vinyl record, and it took quite a few hours, picking out the notes, one at a time.
But it was a labor of love, good ear training, and the song served me well for many decades on stage.
Today, I make my own backing tracks, drums, bass, and comp parts, and Mrs. Notes and I play and sing live on top of those tracks. Having sheet music available, an ear trained with many years experience, and physical skills also developed, songs aren't that hard. They can be very time consuming, learing all the parts, and often there are problems to be worked out, but nothng as hard as an untrained ear picking the notes out, one at a time, using a record player as the source.
Notes ♫
* for the guitarist in the group. Unlike guitar, the sax fingering for the same song is quite different in every key. F# was a difficult key a the time, although, I eventually learned to love it. F# on the tenor sax is E on the guitar, the Bb sax is tuned two half steps higher.
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.......................................
* for the guitarist in the group. Unlike guitar, the sax fingering for the same song is quite different in every key. F# was a difficult key a the time, although, I eventually learned to love it. F# on the tenor sax is E on the guitar, the Bb sax is tuned two half steps higher. I got a chuckle out of the above. I joined my first wedding band in 1970 and the leader was a saxophonist. I had to learn how to play in all of the flat keys. Eb is one of the hardest keys for a guitarist to play, that is until you really learn it. Luckily I could read music so that helped. PS - I still have one of those original "illegal" fake books! I had to buy one so I could practice in those darn flat keys!
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Many of my sax and trumpet playing friends adore Bb, Eb and Ab. I think because a lot of standard jazz and big band tunes are written in that key.
I've known pianists who like the flat keys because they can feel the black keys on the piano without looking at it.
Since I was in Jr. High, instead of brass bands, I've played with guitarists in rock bands. I'm more comfortable in concert E (F# on tenor sax), A (B on sax), G (A on sax) than I am in Eb or Ab.
For rock/blues songs I prefer concert E, F, and G due to the characteristics of the tenor sax (F#, G, A.) and how the tone changes at the octave break. But I can play in any key, some more fluently than others, only because more songs are in those keys.
Play in any key often enough, and your muscle memory will eventually make it comfortable.
For those who don't know, when changing the key on the sax, the fingering is entirely different. So learning a song in one key, and then modulating it up a half step, is like learning the song all over again.
Fast forward >> and the seventh instrument I learned how to play is guitar. Playing a song in C that changes to C# at the end. What? I don't have to change the fingering, just move my hand up a fret? Wow!!! Wanna change it again??? And again!?!?!?!?
On the other hand, reading music is much easier on the sax. One note at a time, and no choice about which of the multiple same note positions on the fretboard to choose.
But of all the instruments I've learned, what I call the 8th is the most difficult - voice. On the sax, I press the right buttons and the right note comes out. The voice doesn't work that way. I spent more time devoping how to be an adequate singer than I did on any other instrument I've tried so far.
Notes ♫
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For those who don't know, when changing the key on the sax, the fingering is entirely different. So learning a song in one key, and then modulating it up a half step, is like learning the song all over again. Well, yeah. Same with a lot of other instruments. Moving up a half step on any brass instrument is totally different too (and to be honest may affect my note choices at times, not because of the note, but because how that fingering would sound ..)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
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I've known pianists who like the flat keys because they can feel the black keys on the piano without looking at it. An interesting approach, that I guess might work for some. I don't know the full explanation, but I can sit at a piano, close my eyes and then play any note or chord with my left hand. Black keys don't usually matter. I was at a George Shearing concert many years ago, and he mentioned that someone had asked him how did he know where Middle C was? To the audiences amusement, he stated that it was simple: "it was the C note nearest to the key lock on the piano" 
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Mornin' everyone.... I'm just a rhythm guitarist/song writer. There is (2) that come to my mind right away. When I do select a cover to flesh out I adhere to the original as best as I can. So, for me: 1) Kid Charlemagne: Steely Dan Lots of changes and many different ways to play it. With the help of my collaborator-in-chief (Ken Lasaine) I finally chose my way to play it and it took me a couple months to actually get comfortable with it. 2) Rio De Janiero Blue: Randy Crawford. A very smooth, captivating song with impeccable vox by Randy. Coming up with the best way to play the chords was a challenge for me. Thanks to Kens' help again I stuck with it and became 'comfortable' with this one too. My version of both is on my YT page if remotely curious. I was quite nervous when recording both of these and almost screwed up the KC take early on but got lucky and recovered my rhythm playing composure. Happy Veterans Day and my respect to all that have served honorably. Carry on.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 11/11/24 05:09 AM.
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<...snip...>
An interesting approach, that I guess might work for some. I don't know the full explanation, but I can sit at a piano, close my eyes and then play any note or chord with my left hand. Black keys don't usually matter.<...> I was in a band that hired a blind pianist, Gilbert Montagne, who went beck to France and became a major star. He could play in any key and could hear the changes without asking what the chords were on songs he played for the first time. On the other hand, I've noticed a lot of Stevie Wonder songs are in flat keys. I guess it depends on the player. I'm not a good enough pianist to play without looking at the keys when I need to move hand positions. Same with guitar. Since sax/windsynth/flute occupy most of my playing time, I just haven't put in the thousands of hours required for that skill. But I still get a little delight in changing keys on the guitar, and keeping the same fingering.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I was at a George Shearing concert many years ago, and he mentioned that someone had asked him how did he know where Middle C was? To the audiences amusement, he stated that it was simple: "it was the C note nearest to the key lock on the piano" Oh, right, that's my problem then ... my MP6 doesn't have a key lock. 
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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I've known pianists who like the flat keys because they can feel the black keys on the piano without looking at it. An interesting approach, that I guess might work for some. I don't know the full explanation, but I can sit at a piano, close my eyes and then play any note or chord with my left hand. Black keys don't usually matter. I was at a George Shearing concert many years ago, and he mentioned that someone had asked him how did he know where Middle C was? To the audiences amusement, he stated that it was simple: "it was the C note nearest to the key lock on the piano" I've told this before.... At a church I attended several years ago, I was in the orchestra. We had 3 really, really good piano players who swapped out or one was on the piano and the other on a synth/organ. The other one was the music minister and was the conductor. You could put a piece of music in front of any of them that they had never seen or heard before. Didn't matter what the key was. They could look at it, and then play it flawlessly like they'd been playing it their entire lives. BUT, tell them we're going to jam in the key of A major with a 1-4-5 progression and they had no clue what you were talking about and they were, in fact, unable to play along. Of course, I was just as clueless on the flip side when I was presented with a piece of sheet music with 5 flats and no chord charts. Practically everything we played on the stage at that church was in the keys of Bb, Eb, and Ab. It was interesting, to say the least, to play along with the orchestra. Yeah, an no capo.... I'd learned the chords and didn't use one and that blew the mind of the other guitar player.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until December 31, 2025. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49. Browse the full contents of each package and listen to demos here.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
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