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"imho the big opportunity with bb is the new tracks view. i can live with the gui.
but what bugs me compared to rb is i can do all sorts of editing of tracks in rb tracks view but not in bb tracks view. to do editing in bb i have to jump around too darn much within the app."That's why I said "without trying to make Biab into a half baked DAW" RealTrack/Drum Edit in Track Mode you want it all to work like a real DAW unless I would have to use my real DAW. Biab is good as it uses non destructive editing for the most part compared to RealBand that is destructive editing and takes longer to generate up.
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Mcity.
re destructive editing.
well ive found ways round like saveing previous versions before the edit.
in reaper its still destructive editing if i save the rpp right ? which is like rb seq. in reaps i still have to save previous versions if i want to go back right ?
there are little techniques one can use.
anyhoo back to gui.
heres my challenge to all bb users.
start a new thread with the topic...
'submit graphic layouts of your ideal bb gui'.
lets see if concensus can be reached.
it would be interesting to see the results.
happiness.
om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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I thought Mario would say "give it a total re-write"  ........................................... I have been beaten down on the "total re-write" issue. As we both know it will never happen so the issues that are being complained about today will the be the issues complained about tomorrow.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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"in reaper its still destructive editing if i save the rpp right ? which is like rb seq. in reaps i still have to save previous versions if i want to go back right ?"
Reaper uses all the source files direct and keeps them intact when saving to rpp, there is no destruction, no matter how many edits you can go back to the original file, it's unharmed.
That's why a RealBand seq of 1.3gb of Biab RTs RDs is only a 2meg saved project file in Reaper (rpp). there is no creation of any new files. Why create copies to fill up the hard drive when you can use the files direct without harming them in any way ? Biab don't create any wav files when it generates, it saves all the wav instruction in a small frozen SGU 1.5meg not 1.3gig seq of wav files. I remember Noah used destructive editing on the ark.
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"I have been beaten down on the "total re-write" issue."
I think the BB Plugin/Plugin Standalone will be the Biab total re-write, look at it now it can generate up midi styles instantly without creating any wav files at all, remember the old days of having to go make a cup of coffee while it generated and filled up the hard drive with wav's !
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Mcity.
re standalone etc.
frankly it frustrates me because i lose sooo much functionality that i have in rb.
i see where your coming from but disc space is dirt cheap these days.
i would sooner have functionality if i had to choose.
really what this illustrates is akin to when i worked in tech...ie there are no free lunches re developing apps. each technical alternative has its plusses and minuses...in this case the bb plug in viz rb.
maybe i'm spoilt by rb tracks view.
(same with gui's...each solution comes with its plusses and minuses. )
but lets take the example of the bb plugin being used in reaper. how do i edit ? where do i edit ?
of course in reaps because this functionality of editing isnt in the plugin. so i got to flit around tween apps.
i'm tired doing that...did it for years and years.
why do that when rb tracks view is so potent a solution ?
also i can easily gen tracks in rb, edit till my hearts content and comp tracks to finals then just drag them into reaps if i wish... easy peasy.
i'm doing something rather complex in rb right now.
no way the bb plugin/standalone could be used.
because essentially the bb plugin or standalone is just a generator of tracks for daws. like a dumb waiter serving
up food in a diner. whereas in rb i have sooo many extra features to help creating songs and lets not forget a plethora of tracks compared to bb.
i get where your coming from re disc space as well as non destructive editing...all VERY good points.
which is the reason i suggested the use of flac techniques even more in rb if possible.
now that multiprocessing is used by rb re gens of session muso tracks things have got faster in rb and i really hope more extensive use of flac is used in rb.
i'm sure we both agree re flac.
as i said each tech solution has plusses and minuses...sigh. believe me if the bb plugin ticked all my boxes or the standalone i would use them.
please dont give me "flac(k)'...lol.
as always Mcity great respect to you and your
efforts to make things easier for users.
happy new year.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/02/25 01:17 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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Not sure why conversation went into
RB, plugin, standalone, magical reaper, Track view, etc.
To me, this is no brainer. Making UI fully modular and configurable with workflow in mind the right way, learning from those companies whos users don't complain about UI - Problem (one of the most quoted problems in BIAB) solved.
The "guts" of the BIAB with exception 2-3 dozen of older bugs are pretty much solid. Program is fast and stable, especially considering complexity. Some bugs are related to workflow and could be addressed if they decide to tackle a well overdue UI upgrade.
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Not sure why conversation went into
RB, plugin, standalone, magical reaper, Track view, etc... Because we can LEARN from these to make things better without putting our head in the sand and ignoring. It's not a competition. I'm sure PG takes it all in, they would not be getting confused and hurt by it all. You have so many great ideas and I respect that but you need to do the same. Why not learn from "magical reaper" to make the PG products better, why has it got to be run down. would a wise man do that, keep doubling down when all the evidence is show ? If PG have fallen for this con they must be very gullible. I don't know what or if any DAW you use, if it has track templates and will load flac or wma non destructively I might be able to help.
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...but lets take the example of the bb plugin being used in reaper. how do i edit ? where do i edit ?
of course in reaps because this functionality of editing isnt in the plugin. so i got to flit around tween apps.
... You can't edit because you are using the old Noah version of Reaper with NO api scripting or Rewire. I have requested Drag n Drop Track Templates (Reaper) (Easy Fix) this will allow Reaper users to drag and drop the non destructive wav/flac instruction from the Plugin or SavedTracks folder as Reaper track templates, this will work in the Noah version also allowing you to edit Biab tracks non destructively that you can't do with a consolidated wav file. (as long as it will handle flac if not you can use wav or any other format the Noah version will handle) EDIT: if you tell me what file format RealTracks you are using and what hard drive path they are on I will send you a track template that you can drop into the old Reaper.
Last edited by musocity; 01/02/25 04:47 PM.
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..Not sure why conversation went into
RB, plugin, standalone, magical reaper, Track view, etc... We all learn things, as Noel was appreciative from another thread: This is a very interesting thread parapente, jpettit, Rustyspoon#, Matt and musocity. It is well worth reading for all the valuable information that it contains. I appreciate all that I learnt from going through this smile
--Noel
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Mcity.
(note... frankly i hardly use reaps any more due to recent rb upgrades..)
much respect and happiness Mcity.
Rusty (and all).
do you think the idea of pg users submitting graphics of what they would like the bb gui to look like has merit rusty ?
ie a picture is worth a thousand words etc etc.
if you do then i would suggest a thread be started titled along the lines...
'please post graphics of what gui design would keep you happy',
hopefully a user consensus could be reached.
it might also be usefull as input to pg to consider re future versions of bb ?
just an idea.
happiness to all.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 01/02/25 05:13 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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"ie a picture is worth a thousand words etc etc." +1 I remember Rusty made a great pic of the BB Plugin that helped ! I use http://www.webpage-maker.com/ it's free to try and that is all you need, the try version creates a watermark when you save to html but you don't need to do that. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=29684&filename=BB25-WPM.gif)
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I think anyone who has used a modern DAW will not do multi-track editing in BIAB.
Therefore, BIAB multi-track editing cannot be the main breakthrough.
BIAB's advantage is the large number of real tracks. The search function should be strengthened. Let us quickly export some instruments that can be used and easily inserted and changed, and put them into other DAWs for use
Please allow me to be honest.
I now open BIAB less and less.
WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO
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I think anyone who has used a modern DAW will not do multi-track editing in BIAB.... I come up with ideas for those that want to edit in Biab I come up with ideas for those that want to edit in a DAW yet I get hassled by both 
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...now that multiprocessing is used by rb re gens of session muso tracks things have got faster in rb and i really hope more extensive use of flac is used in rb... This non destructive editing will fix RealBand and generate speed as it won't take all that time for bbw2 to render wav files for it, it could just use the flac/wav/wma direct: ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=26522&filename=RealBand-Copy-Code.png) ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=24241&filename=RB-Chord-Track.png)
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...but lets take the example of the bb plugin being used in reaper. how do i edit ? where do i edit ?.. Once the Plugin has the drag n drop track templates you will get the non destructive wav instructions editing: To use wma you need 6.57 up if you use wav/flac you can use an earlier version (if you have the disk space you can decompress the wma to wav). If you are using version 2 like justanoldmuso the PLUGIN will all work except for the Send integration with Reaper's API, the next version of the PLUGIN after 6.0.13 should allow for drag track data (Reaper Track Template) that should work in v2: Now for the original .di files that the PLUGIN is currently making needs to have a line: Name "" for them to drag/open into Reaper version 2 the first 2 items I added Name "" to a line then they load in otherwise it's an empty item EDIT: the name would of been just the wav/take name that can be blank. Bass - 1255 Bass, Electric, PopShiningA-B Ev 120 .di.RTrackTemplate <ITEM
POSITION 4 8
SNAPOFFS 0 0
LENGTH 3.43928571428571
NAME ""
SOFFS 100.01791666666701
PLAYRATE 1.16666666666667 1 0 -1 0 0.0025
<SOURCE VIDEO
FILE "E:\bb\RealTracks\Bass, Electric, PopShiningA-B Ev 120\bs2126.wav"
>
>
<ITEM
POSITION 6.89
SNAPOFFS 0
LENGTH 6.83928571428572
NAME ""
SOFFS 28.0383333333333
PLAYRATE 1.16666666666667 1 0 -1 0 0.0025
<SOURCE VIDEO
FILE "E:\bb\RealTracks\Bass, Electric, PopShiningA-B Ev 120\bs2126.wav"
>
>
<ITEM
POSITION 13.7378571428571
SNAPOFFS 0
LENGTH 5.14642857142857
SOFFS 8.0275
PLAYRATE 1.16666666666667 1 0 -1 0 0.0025
<SOURCE VIDEO
FILE "E:\bb\RealTracks\Bass, Electric, PopShiningA-B Ev 120\bs2126.wav"
>
>![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=27631&filename=Reaper-V2-Drag-Track-Template.gif)
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Still working on my next post. As seen in the post by musocity, BiaB did have, at one time have the ability to add / remove and even float toolbars. I would like to see that feature return to BiaB. Also I did find how to remove Icons from BiaB that I did not need, without loosing what the icon does, as the same function can be found in the top menu. I will not provide where or exactly how to do this, You really need to be knowledgeable with how things work on a PC. I just hope that PG brings this back. PGmusic does not endorse this as well, anyone that decides to do this, is on their own and there it's their responsibility.![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/sSYmiP0.png) Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/07/25 10:04 AM.
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After some thought on my last post, and discussions with a forum user, I decided to give some information on how you can remove icons from BiaB.
Again, anyone that decides to do this, is on their own and there it's their responsibility.1) Find the correct icon you want removed and DO NOT DELETE, just change the name by removing the "p" ex: xxxx.bmp to xxxx.bm Doing it this way, will allow you to change things back if needed. There are a few places where it needs to be done 2) If you have a custom skin then go to; (x is the BB installed location) "x:\bb\data\customskins" and skin name folder also "x:\bb\Data\Images\MainScreenButtons" I would suggest you do only 1 icon first to see if that works, once you are comfortable doing it, then move on slowly until you are satisfied. Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/07/25 10:06 AM.
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Problem #3 If you look at the Red circles, you will notice text is cut short, this also may occur in other areas of the program. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/6NU7mOv.png) Robert
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To me the Preferences window (Found at Options/Preferences), is just a mess. I say that because many of the buttons just open another windows. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/YtyaeDG.png) I think that something like this (Showing below) would make it more understandable and whatever you select, can be shown in the same window. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/3DyKECH.png) If anyone has better solution, Please comment! Robert
Last edited by robertw; 01/07/25 03:32 PM.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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