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PG Music Staff
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This thread is for suggestions regarding the Notation view. This is for specific suggestions only, not general comments.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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1) It needs the same pan, zoom, and scroll as the other views.
2) It needs a linear one-line view with the same timeline as all other views.
3) It needs a loop bar in timeline the same as all other views.
4) It needs a toolbar for tools write (pencil) durations etc. (look at the state of the art in notation tools)
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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I've used about every notation program there is. All I can say is, please don't change too much from what is the best way I ever found to enter notation. I'm OK with Jeff's ideas, though: Yes, #4 using a pencil mouse tool to modify note durations is preferable to having to Edit, Duration and entering typed numbers. #1 is to bring the window up to date; #2 and #3 make it more compatible with the rest of the views in the program.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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In any of the notation views, no matter which track it's displaying. It should have a background color following each bar, just like the Chords view does.
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Please don't change Staff Roll Notation Mode. ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=30022&filename=staff roll mode 2019.JPG) The convenience and ease of using the the blue horizontal line to control a note's length and the blue vertical line to control a note's velocity are amazing tools. I use them all the time. These note properties are presently adjusted by dragging the mouse with the right button held down. This technique is fast and easy. Like Matt, I find note-entry in Editable Notation Mode the most efficient and easiest note-entry mode I've ever used. I prefer it to other scoring programs I've used. I use it regularly as I create a lead sheet for every song I write.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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I’m with Noel. I tend to forget there are three notation modes, and I should have been precise that I was talking only about editable notation mode.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I've used about every notation program there is. All I can say is, please don't change too much from what is the best way I ever found to enter notation. Matt, or anyone, can you tell us what you like about it compared to say Notion, Finale, Sibelius, Musecore, or Dorico?
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Jeff, is it better to start another thread for discussion purposes? In his opening post, Andrew has asked that these thread created by PG Music be used only for ideas not for discussions. I was in two minds about posting my comment regarding the Staff Roll Notation mode because it seemed to be more along discussion lines than ideas lines.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Yes, you are correct.
I have found the score view difficult and I can learn what Matt thinks is cool elsewhere.
Last edited by jpettit; 01/24/25 08:29 AM.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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When I get more time. One point now is that even though I often continue in another software, if I have to just enter a melody quickly, BIAB is great. Some of the reason is familiarity: you use what you know best, and I’ve been using BIAB longer than most software. Another is the grid BIAB uses that I can click on to determine the rhythm because it ends the prior note. Most software takes two steps: select a note value, place the note. BIAB does this in one click. Another is to tap in the rhythm, then drag to the correct pitches later.
Also, I sometimes bring a MIDI file into BIAB just to expand or contract the duration so it matches the tempo of the project (for example, did they write the samba in 4/4 at 190 or in cut time at 95 for a half-note)? There may be other programs that will do this but I haven’t found one.
I think I can go on if I spend any time on the subject.
I have mentioned, I do all my score writing in Notion 6 now. Note entry is ok if you know the keyboard shortcuts. Notion takes the WAV file I produce in BIAB for a jazz rhythm section and then I build the orchestra or big band parts around it.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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When I get more time. One point now is that even though I often continue in another software, if I have to just enter a melody quickly, BIAB is great. Some of the reason is familiarity: you use what you know best, and I’ve been using BIAB longer than most software. I've found entering a melody like that, from start to finish, quite good, though I often get wrong notes and have to adjust them ... less so with the big-notes presentation. My difficulty with that method is a long-standing RSI issue with using a mouse. I just can't use one for long before I have to take a break. And because of that long-standing issue, I'm pretty ambidextrous with mice. My preferred way of entering is from a PC as opposed to a MIDI controller is via the PC keyboard, so I prefer the duration+note method using a...g and cursors for accidentals. Where I really struggle with the BiaB method is in navigating my way around ... I tend to go to the chordsheet cell, then to notation, but I then have to check if I'm in the right chorus for what I want, then it's back to that mouse again. I fully recognise that this might be mostly "just me".
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
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Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Where I really struggle with the BiaB method is in navigating my way around ... I tend to go to the Chord sheet cell, then to notation, but I then have to check if I'm in the right chorus for what I want, then it's back to that mouse again. When investigating commonality between views last year for the Workflow video, my number one reaction was. "Good grief where they all coded by different people with different standards in different decades?". I guess the Notation View's scroll, pan and zoom where coded long before people expected standards for navigation especially with mouse/wheel modifiers. You can see navigation in the chord view is a lot more modern approach.
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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When investigating commonality between views last year for the Workflow video, my number one reaction was. "Good grief where they all coded by different people with different standards in different decades?". You may say that sir, I couldn't possibly comment.  There are many of aspects of BiaB that give a similar impression. It's partly a consequence of adding new features rather than thinking properly about the look, feel, direction of the product, but I think it probably is also precisely as you say. BiaB often gives me the strong impression that there was no overall architectural philosopy or control. That may be harsh of me, but I don't think so.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Jeff, I go back to 1993 with BIAB and only a year earlier with Encore notation, so those old methods are pretty ingrained, but they still work for me. I don’t think mouse notation entry in BIAB has changed much.
Gordon, yes, one time when I was writing for a symphony orchestra, my wrist became somewhat inflamed by so much mouse use. I then developed pretty good skill using it with my other hand for awhile. I don’t play keyboard.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Jeff, I go back to 1993 with BIAB and only a year earlier with Encore notation, so those old methods are pretty ingrained, but they still work for me. I don’t think mouse notation entry in BIAB has changed much. Matt, my reply was purely about navigating (zoom, scroll and pan) I have no opinion about the editing in Notation view. I will test now: 1) a little laggy 2) do not like pop up warning all the time. 3) Note duration very mysterious, no tool bar of duration, I figure out it look like it was assuming whole note or two half note s and rewrote if you added more not to show the difference. I then remember I had gotten lost before and gave up and went back to Notion. Are there good videos on how to use it?
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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Gordon, yes, one time when I was writing for a symphony orchestra, my wrist became somewhat inflamed by so much mouse use. Perhaps I should assure that it wasn't BiaB that caused my injury ... that dates from a large report I wrote in the "company standard" wordprocessor that ultimately proved unsuitable, then intensively copy+pasted the whole thing into another that "was acceptable" to find similar problems, and then again into LaTeX which finally allowed me properly to manage section/paragraph numbering and revisions. I worked through the pain ...and I've had to do so occasionally ever since.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Jeff, got it. But I LIKE that there is no 'tool of duration', assuming you are just entering notes in linear order. That's why it's only one mouse action per note. Even if it isn't, it's easy enough to Edit the note parameters.
Gordon, I urge you NOT to work through the pain. Find another answer. And like you, it wasn't BIAB that ever caused me any wrist trouble. In fact, related to what Jeff mentioned, it was the 'pick a note, then place a note' in my notation software that got me.
Any of you who visited Don Gaynor, I sent him my trackball.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Gordon, I urge you NOT to work through the pain. I generally don't now, but when I had a day job there were times when I had little choice if I were to get the work done. Some tools offer no option than using a mouse. Trying to avoid the pain with those tools was why I became pretty ambidextrous with mouse, vertical mouse, trackball and thumb-trackball and why I often wore a wrist brace. Fortunately I can now just avoid most of those. If it starts to hurt now, normally I curse and stop. I agree 100% with your statement. If a mouse is causing pain, do not work through it ... it will likely cause long term damage,
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
.
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Good point Matt - I agree, the notation entry in Band-in-a-Box can be much quicker because you don't have to select the note duration. It does have some drawbacks but I prefer the way it works over other notation software and I'm not sure it would be beneficial to change it. Also a good point about navigation within the notation window - I agree it is awkward.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Good point Matt - I agree, the notation entry in Band-in-a-Box can be much quicker because you don't have to select the note duration. It does have some drawbacks but I prefer the way it works over other notation software and I'm not sure it would be beneficial to change it. Also a good point about navigation within the notation window - I agree it is awkward. Andrew, there is no mouse or arrow key zoom pan or scroll. It should be identical to all other views. (In fact all should be the same) I cannot figure out how to enter a whole note or half note? How do I loop a few bars to see if the rhythm and notes are right? More videos on how to enter any duration or rest with the current algorithm would be good,
Studio One (latest version), Win 11 23H2 , i9 -10940X 3.3 GHz, 32GB Mem, a 4K 40" monitor, PreSonus Studio Live III Console as interface/controller. secondarily test on Reaper, Cakewalk, and S1 on Surface Pro 3 Win 10 (latest versions).
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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