I ran some of Andrew's suggested tests on my Clavinova CVP 307's MIDI manager, starting with enabling or disabling the various pre-programmed MIDI templates (see screenshot below), and I got the following results:
With the MIDI Input Driver enabled in Band in a Box 2025:
- Band in a Box 2025 doesn't stutter when I select MIDI OFF (obviously!), or KBD & STYLE, or Master KBD, or Song (*)
- Band in a Box 2025 stutters when I select ALL PARTS, or Clock Ext, or MIDI Accord1, or MIDI Accord2, or MIDI Pedal1, or MIDI Pedal2.
A dash behind an audio driver, midi driver or plugin normally means more than one instance of the driver or plugin is loaded and in use. Typically that is not a good thing because in most instances it happens while the operator is trying to get the driver or plugin to work as expected.
-1 is telling you the original CVP-307 driver and a second instance of the CVP-307 driver are loaded at the same time. -2 is telling you there are three instances of the CVP-307 driver loaded at the same time.
There are multiple ways this can happen but, without knowing the steps you took the only approach I can suggest are coarse. The coarse steps would be to navigate to options > Return To Factory Settings All and abandoning your current song project and starting a new song project.
Band in a Box 2025 doesn't stutter when I select MIDI OFF (obviously!), or KBD & STYLE, or Master KBD, or Song (*)
From the sound of it, the "Song" option seems like it would work best. Does using that make things work as you expected?
Originally Posted by Jim Fogle
-1 is telling you the original CVP-307 driver and a second instance of the CVP-307 driver are loaded at the same time. -2 is telling you there are three instances of the CVP-307 driver loaded at the same time.
Almost correct - the 1- or 2- would have to be at the start of the driver name, not at the end. In this particular case it's because the CVP-307 has multiple internal MIDI interfaces - for what purpose I'm not sure, but:
All (or nearly all) Yamaha keyboards use the same driver. I happen to have an S90 here, and BB detects it as three separate input interfaces and eight separate MIDI outputs! This is because the S90 has expansion slots, and the extra interfaces are used to address those expansions - and I believe some are used for other purposes. Either way, in this case the -1 and -2 are perfectly normal.
Originally Posted by Lazy Bird
PS: Initially, I did not have these two lines CVP-307-1 and CVP-307-2, but only one line CVP-307. Why did these two lines appear and how to return to the initial situation?
My assumption is that you might have originally been using a "generic" MIDI driver rather than the official Yamaha one, as the official one should show two entries for output.
A dash behind an audio driver, midi driver or plugin normally means more than one instance of the driver or plugin is loaded and in use. Typically that is not a good thing because in most instances it happens while the operator is trying to get the driver or plugin to work as expected. -1 is telling you the original CVP-307 driver and a second instance of the CVP-307 driver are loaded at the same time. -2 is telling you there are three instances of the CVP-307 driver loaded at the same time. There are multiple ways this can happen but, without knowing the steps you took the only approach I can suggest are coarse. The coarse steps would be to navigate to options > Return To Factory Settings All and abandoning your current song project and starting a new song project.
Originellement posté par Simon - PG Music
Originellement posté par Lazy Bird
Band in a Box 2025 doesn't stutter when I select MIDI OFF (obviously!), or KBD & STYLE, or Master KBD, or Song (*)
From the sound of it, the "Song" option seems like it would work best. Does using that make things work as you expected?
Originellement posté par Jim Fogle
-1 is telling you the original CVP-307 driver and a second instance of the CVP-307 driver are loaded at the same time. -2 is telling you there are three instances of the CVP-307 driver loaded at the same time.
Almost correct - the 1- or 2- would have to be at the start of the driver name, not at the end. In this particular case it's because the CVP-307 has multiple internal MIDI interfaces - for what purpose I'm not sure, but: All (or nearly all) Yamaha keyboards use the same driver. I happen to have an S90 here, and BB detects it as three separate input interfaces and eight separate MIDI outputs! This is because the S90 has expansion slots, and the extra interfaces are used to address those expansions - and I believe some are used for other purposes. Either way, in this case the -1 and -2 are perfectly normal.
Originellement posté par Lazy Bird
PS: Initially, I did not have these two lines CVP-307-1 and CVP-307-2, but only one line CVP-307. Why did these two lines appear and how to return to the initial situation?
My assumption is that you might have originally been using a "generic" MIDI driver rather than the official Yamaha one, as the official one should show two entries for output. Have you installed the latest official driver from Yamaha? If not, you should install it: https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/umd_win64_kbd.html If so you should uninstall it, then reinstall the latest version.
Hello Simon, hello Jim,
Thanks for your messages.
I got my Dell XPS 18 computer back, the one dedicated to music, and I completely reinstalled Band in a Box 2025.
Although Band in a Box 2025 has been reset to factory settings, I still have two CVP 307s appearing in Options, MIDI/Audio Driver Setup, and MIDI Output Driver when I connect the piano directly to my Dell XPS 18, even though I have the latest version of the official Yamaha driver (which I downloaded from the Yamaha website and installed when I started testing by connecting the piano directly to the computer).
But the issue no longer arises for me because I've returned to my initial installation with the piano connected to the computer via my Roland EX Duo Capture EX digital audio interface (screenshot below).
And now that I've set my Clavinova CVP 307's MIDI to Master Keyboard, I can use Band in a Box 2025 with the MIDI Input Driver enabled without any stuttering issues.
So, I consider the problem raised by my initial question solved for me 😊!
Thank you again for your many tips and all your test ideas to resolve the stuttering issue with Band in a Box 2025 when connected to my Clavinova CVP 307 and playing with the MIDI Input Driver enabled.
Thanks to the latest test proposed by Andrew (PG Music), I now know how to work around the problem by limiting the MIDI on my piano to a setting that sends less MIDI data to Band in Box, for example by setting my Clavinova to Master Keyboard only.
I therefore consider the problem raised by my initial question resolved ... at least for me 😊!
But I still regret that we haven't found out what has changed in PG Music's MIDI handling between Band in a Box 2020 and Band in a Box 2021 and later versions!
So I'll see if other owners of "old" Clavinova CVPs have encountered the same problem as me!
Regardless, a satisfactory outcome, so this is a move in the right direction. You may wish to open your original post and mark it as resolved (there's a button for that), as this might assist others in the future. Thanks for keeping us in the loop.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
I just tried to read this thread again. I skimmed it, so I apologize if I missed this, but it seems one of my earlier comments was not explored. I had asked this:
"In the first screen shot, why are there two entries for the Clavinova? Is it possible there are two drivers loaded? You might want to look in Device Manager in Windows and disable one of these."
Was this done?
While this thread is marked Resolved, I see you have begun another thread about Clavinovas. Before you can conclude the problem is some change by PG Music, you have to ensure the other conditions are equal.
In my experience, problems happen when you use different ports for a device and sometimes Windows gets confused. It's best to View the Hidden Devices in Windows Device Manager (in the Control Panel) and disable the one not being used. Then be sure to plug the device into that same port each time.
There's more. There's always more, but let's start here.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
i dunno if this helps the op ...but ive compared the properties reported by win of different years bb exe sizes ie right click on exe for exe size.
for example 2025 exe size is larger than earlier versions eg 2022 by a few megs. so its possible that this might be a factor...ie a tipping point.
AT and Matt and anyone else interested...as im vision impaired...upthread is a pic of the op's task bar. it looked like the net was also running ??
in summary im not sure one can say ...'well bb ran in year xxxx with no stutters so why doesnt 2025 ?'. because for one the 2025 exe it seems is bigger. to be fair to pg they have no way of knowing what other apps/tasks a users pc is running.
yes midi issues can be a factor but 'most' past cases ive seen over many years with peoples different pc's and stuttering is they arent optimised/set for music creation...per AT...hence why i did the tips thread in the tips forum. thus there are many reasons for stutters. maybe in this case the larger bb 2025 and/or the net being on and/or other external factors as AT said.
to finish i really wish latency monitor had been run cos this will give added info so informed advice can be given. i requested this earlier as i did rb track counts but no info posted back.
for background lurkers reading these threads please please consider getting your pc optimised for music production. as well as my tips in the pg tips forum there is a ton of info on the net and you tube and sites where studios hang out like gearspace.com and others. gearspace is a great site to post problems and ask for advice etc etc.
happiness.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/29/2501:33 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
Hello AudioTrack, Matt Finley, MarioD and Old Muso,
Keep in mind one thing: I never experienced this stuttering issue with Band in a Box 2010, 2015, and 2020 installed with the same initial configuration: a Clavinova CVP 307 connected to a Dell XPS 18 PC via a Roland Duo-Capture EX interface via MIDI and USB ports.
The stuttering problem only appeared when I replaced Band in a Box 2020 with Band in a Box 2025 on the same PC connected to the same piano with the same cables and ports, and I used Band in a Box 2025 with the MIDI Input driver enabled, as I did previously (*).
But I also know that the problem isn't solely with Band in a Box 2025, since, as I mentioned, Band in a Box 2025 doesn't stutter, regardless of the computer it's installed on, when I connect my PC to a Yamaha P45 piano, even if I play it with the MIDI Input driver enabled.
From all this, it's hard not to think that the problem stems from the relationship between Band in a Box 2025 and the Clavinova CVP 307! That's why I'd like to know if other CVP 307 owners are experiencing the same problem.
Best!
(*) I know today, with the tests done at the request of Andrew (PG Music), that it is from the 2021 version that Band in a Box stutters when connected to my Clavinova CVP 307 (note that the 2021 version is the first version with 16 additional tracks).
I know, it's still a puzzle. The thread is pretty long and I don't recall if it was ever stated that BIAB 2024 (and thus 2025) are fundamentally different in terms of requirements for the CPU than versions before 2024. They changed it so RealTracks regenerate much faster than before, but of course this requires more processing power. Yes, I know that's as far from MIDI as it gets, but combined with the picture of your processor maxing out, I think it's at least a good explanation why BIAB 2020 and 2025 might behave differently.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
this thread keeps on returning to why does A work with X but not Y. with respect its not comparing apples to apples. because.. ..the bb versions are different and ..you have two different kbds which might have different engineering intrernaly as well as different midi protocol implementations.
see what i mean ? yes a ford and a rolls royce might get one from A to B but internally they are engineered differently.
now lets come at this another way. up thread i asked you if the net was activated while you were useing bb. you never replied....why ? there are reasons i asked this....as well as why i asked you to run latency mon from resplenfence so as to assess your pc. and also i requested rb track counts.
why are the above important ?? and shouldnt be ignored ??
answer is depending on the answers from you we can say 'ok its not that'. ie process of elimination. ie this info alows us to drill down to the nub of your issues by ticking off possible reasons. for example if latency mon throws up red flags then this is an important input.
so once again i ask please post back thei info requested. so we can go through a process of elimination for possible reasons for your problems.
so PLEASE...post back...
..whether the net is active all the time. ..what latency mon reports re your pc. ..what rb reports re your possible track counts.
maybe the above info is relevent or not but we wont know till the above are known it will help greatly in ticking off possible stutter causes. Ive seen over the years some very odd reasons for stutters.
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 03/30/2506:25 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb.)
Adding to Matt's message, starting in 2021 if BiaB requires more resources due to the added tracks, the CVP 307 required resources, and the fact that the computer's CPU is running near and at max indicates that the computer may not be powerful enough to run both simultaneously. I believe the fact that the Yamaha P45 piano works just fine supports that theory.
I'd like to know how much ram, the CPU speed, and how much room is available on her HD.
Ladybird did you disable your Ethernet card and everything running in the background like I previously suggested? If so did the CVP 307 and BiaB 2025 work OK? If you eliminate some of the CPU workload you may get both to work properly.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I still have two CVP 307s appearing in Options, MIDI/Audio Driver Setup, and MIDI Output Driver
That is normal with the Yamaha driver, and you will notice it in other software.
Originally Posted by Lazy Bird
But the issue no longer arises for me because I've returned to my initial installation with the piano connected to the computer via my Roland EX Duo Capture EX digital audio interface (screenshot below).
And now that I've set my Clavinova CVP 307's MIDI to Master Keyboard, I can use Band in a Box 2025 with the MIDI Input Driver enabled without any stuttering issues.
So, I consider the problem raised by my initial question solved for me 😊!
Glad you found an acceptable solution!
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
I just tried to read this thread again. I skimmed it, so I apologize if I missed this, but it seems one of my earlier comments was not explored. I had asked this:
"In the first screen shot, why are there two entries for the Clavinova? Is it possible there are two drivers loaded? You might want to look in Device Manager in Windows and disable one of these."
Was this done?
This is normal with the official Yamaha driver, as there are multiple MIDI "ports" on some devices (My S90 has eight, with only one device in Device Manager).
Originally Posted by AudioTrack
I became convinced a while ago that the problem is external to BIAB. It is either configuration, or a MIDI 'data' looping issue.
I agree.
Originally Posted by Matt Finley
Originally Posted by MarioD
I see by your pictures that your CPU maxes out. That will cause stuttering also.
I ran two final tests among those suggested by Old Muso and Mario D, this time on my computer dedicated to music, the one with Windows 10, an i7 processor, and whose RAM has just been upgraded to 12 GB:
- I uninstalled all network cards and therefore prevented any internet connection. But when I reset the MIDI settings of my Clavinova to "All Parts" and play the piano with the MIDI Input driver enabled in Band in a Box 2025, it still stutters.
- I opened Windows Task Manager and looked at the computer's performance when playing Band in a Box: it seems to me that the processor is just as heavily used as when I was testing with my desktop computer, the one with Windows 11, an i3 processor, and 8 GB of RAM (screenshot below).
Although I feel guilty about not running all the tests you suggested, especially with Old Muso, who has long been making its best efforts to suggest leads for research, I'll stop now:
- My problem is practically solved since I know that there are pre-programmed MIDI settings on my Clavinova CVP 307, such as Master Keyboard, that prevent Band in a Box 2025 from stuttering when I play or record MIDI.
- Above all, I want to find time to make music again; and computer tests take up even more of my time, especially since I'm not a pro at it!
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