|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764 |
Thought I'd share a success/enlightenment story that may be useful to others.
I do a fair amount of bass guitar, keyboard and drum pad recordings and on my last one a significant amount of noise ended up on my bass track. Studio One has a handful of built-in noise reduction tools and Strip-Silence is one I go to frequently. But someone mentioned the Stem Separator. At first I dismissed this idea since (in my mind) the Stem Separator is intended to separate instruments, not noise. But, the curious guy I am drove me to give it a try.
Here was my test: 1. I dragged in a complete song and separated out the bass (no problem as I do this quite frquently). 2. I then created a track of white noise using the Tone Generator. 3. I then exported the bass line and white noise tracks as a mixdown. 4. Then I dragged the mixdown back into Studio One to verify the bassline was heavily contaminated with the noise (and it was). 5. Then I Stem-Separated the contaminated track to extract the bass, and it worked like a charm. The bass was noise-free.
I have to say Kudos to the Presonus engineers for designing such a robust stem separator, it even works as a noise reduction tool.
As a side note, I'm beginning to look at Studio One as a general purpose audio-editing programming environment rather than just a "musicians DAW". I know other DAWs are capable but the more I explore Studio One the more I realize how powerful it is.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 608
Journeyman
|
Journeyman
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 608 |
Thanks, this is very interesting and good to know.
I am a bit qurious about the actual stem separation itself. Will the separated bass stem be more or less exactly at the same quality as the recorded played bass itself or is it degraded in some way?
BIAB 2026, Studio Pro 8, Song Master Pro, Win11 Home. i7-9700K CPU, 32GB, ESI MAYA44eX, ZOOM UAC-2, Guitar Pro 8, Transcribe, (EZKeys2, EZD3, SD3, EZBass, EZMix3) Amateur: fiddle, guitar, vocal, beginner on bass.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764 |
Thanks, this is very interesting and good to know.
I am a bit qurious about the actual stem separation itself. Will the separated bass stem be more or less exactly at the same quality as the recorded played bass itself or is it degraded in some way? This is a very good question and I don't have (but would also like) an answer. From a practical perspective, meaning to my ears, an S1 separated bass stem sounds clean, crisp, full and fat enough for my purposes. But my ears are not perfect, no one's ears are. But the engineer in me says that there must be some (perhaps tiny) amount of distortion that results from every separation process. Especially if there are other low frequency content in the neighborhood of what the bass guitar is putting out. I remember a test case last year on this forum involving SongMaster, but as I recall a deep acoustic analysis was never done. Perhaps someone here has a tool that can do the following subtraction: Original Bass Track - Separated Bass Track = The Difference If "The Difference" isn't exactly zero in evey bar and at every millisecond, then there would be some level of distortion or artifacts at play. Are there any digital audio experts in the house?
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,766
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,766 |
Perhaps someone here has a tool that can do the following subtraction: Original Bass Track - Separated Bass Track = The Difference If "The Difference" isn't exactly zero in evey bar and at every millisecond, then there would be some level of distortion or artifacts at play. Use any DAW. Load the original bass on one track and the separated bass on another, making sure they're both aligned. Using a plugin or tool of some sort, invert the polarity of ONE track. Then play back both tracks together and you'll hear the difference. If you then render the output you can then see the difference.
I work here
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764 |
Use any DAW. Load the original bass on one track and the separated bass on another, making sure they're both aligned. Using a plugin or tool of some sort, invert the polarity of ONE track. Then play back both tracks together and you'll hear the difference. If you then render the output you can then see the difference. Well, I have an answer and my engineering instincts once again did not fail me. As suggest by Simon I inverted the polarity and can clearly hear a muffled but audible difference when non-inverted and inverted are played at the same time. Definitions:"Bass Track A" is the separated bass from a popular song from the 70s. The source audio is an MP3 file. "Bass Track B" is "Bass Track A" with significant white noise added. "Bass Track C" is the bass separated from Bass Track B (which contains no audible noise). "Bass Track D" is the inversion of Bass Track C (and when played sounds just like Bass Track C) Test Results:1. The first test I ran was to ensure that the inversion took place properly. So I played C and D at the same time and got no audio out. This makes sense as they cancel one another out. 2. Then I played A and D and the result is an audible, distorted and muffled bassline that I could easily identify as the bassline to this song. I interpret what I hear when these tracks are played as error (albeit small error) produced by the separation algorithm. Conclusion1. Based on this one "simple" test, there is in fact distortion and artifacts generated from the Studio One stem separation process. This makes sense because an AI trained algorithm is generalizing how to extract bass from a finite number training examples. We can't expect it to be mathematically perfect. 2. Bass Track C contains distortion and/or artifacts even though someone with good hearing can't hear them. But from a practical standpoint the separations are so good, especially when mixed with other tracks that I (and I'm sure others) can't tell the difference. The other point worth mentioning is that this was somewhat of a best case (low stress) case because white noise is sonically much different from bass guitar and therefore should be relatively easy to separate from bass. On the other hand, songs with bass guitar, low-end keyboard, etc would be more difficult for the algorithm. But even in such cases it does a good job for my ears. Here is an interesting spin-off question. At what point is the error (observed and described above) deemed unacceptable to the developers of the algorithm? I'd think this would be an important question for those releasing product containing stem separation capability. Presonus obviously got it right. Simon, thanks for mentioning inversion, I wouldn't have known Studio One could do this without your idea.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,766
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 2,766 |
Simon, thanks for mentioning inversion, I wouldn't have known Studio One could do this without your idea. Happy to help! I'm not terribly surprised that the extraction isn't perfect, however if it sounds good then I'd be happy.
I work here
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764 |
Happy to help! I'm not terribly surprised that the extraction isn't perfect, however if it sounds good then I'd be happy. Although the stem separation in Studio One, and I would say all stem separators, can only be approximations of "unbaking the cake", nonetheless Studio One's implementation is so good that the unavoidable artifacts are below my threshold of hearing. And I have good hearing, so yes, I'm very happy with it. This is my recap of what I learned thru this exploration: 1. Studio One's built-in stem separator is so strong that it can actually remove noise from my bass recordings 2. Studio One continues to impress me with its collection of availabe plugins, my most recent discoveries are the Tone Generator (for white noise, pink noise and pure tones) and the Mix Tool (for inverting audio waveforms) 3. There is so much more to discover in this DAW I'm guessing that sound engineers of yesteryear would have given their right arms for capability that is readily available today.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,060
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,060 |
And don't forget Simon's trick to duplicate track output then invert the track polarity of one of the tracks to compare if the waveforms are the same. Added bonus, you found out Studio One has the capability to invert the polarity of a track.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,069
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,069 |
Added bonus, you found out Studio One has the capability to invert the polarity of a track. If there’s a DAW that can’t, I’ve not heard of it.
BIAB 2026 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia/Tahoe, M1 & M5 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, Logic, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScore/Notion/Overture
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,060
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,060 |
Mike, very likely true. I based my comment on Bass Thumper's last comment Simon, thanks for mentioning inversion, I wouldn't have known Studio One could do this without your idea in +++ THIS +++ post. Some of us users have no or little experience with using a mixer, console, observing or working in a control booth, recording in a studio or investigated all the features available in a DAW. When you're self learning it's easy to have wide gaps in what many consider basic knowledge because you don't know what you don't know until you encounter it or need it and go hunting for it. Even if you're a big studio veteran recording pro you may not have much knowledge about what goes on in the control booth if you're always on the recording side of the studio window.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,764 |
Some of us users have no or little experience with using a mixer, console, observing or working in a control booth, recording in a studio or investigated all the features available in a DAW.
When you're self learning it's easy to have wide gaps in what many consider basic knowledge because you don't know what you don't know until you encounter it or need it and go hunting for it. Very well put. The reason I went down the inverter path was to help answer shlind's question about stem degradation. And in that process I ended up learning something. If you're not growing/learning you're dying . . . and I'm not yet ready to die 
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,108
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,108 |
... If you're not growing/learning you're dying . . . and I'm not yet ready to die  A very good philosophy. I'm planning to hang around for a while longer also  (I better keep learning...)
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,592
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,592 |
I enjoyed reading this thread. The experiment was logical, well-documented, and beneficial.
I might only suggest the post title be modified to reflect that it was an experiment and used stem separation, because I chose not to read it on first glance thinking it was about a routine function.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,285
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,285 |
I'd be more concerned about the source of the problem.
I use ReaFir in Reaper to sample and filter noise I can't deal with at source, (in my circumstances that's RF/EMF interference peak at around 20Khz that sneaks in on ALL tracks recorded in my space. The only solution that would work at source would be turning the room into a Faraday cage.
The BIAB stem splitter works rather well.
Cheers rayc "What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm
Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Don't wait - order today!
Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,317
Posts803,298
Members40,096
| |
Most Online64,515 Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|