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For most of this year I've been researching mastering, which I have no experience of, as I really wanted my vocal songs to be of a much better quality, so I've done a lot of reading and watched many videos, but although I've now done many experiments in Audacity and also bought Rast Sounds' Soren AI mastering I totally failed to achieve the quality I wanted. Calling Soren "AI" is a bit of a stretch as one only has 10 genre selections, 4 style presets and 4 loudness presets and whatever variation I tried ended up with a result less good than the original. A very simple wave editor comes with my CyberLink video app and I had better results with just that, but even then I found nothing I tried sounded significantly better than the original. So although I've done a channel-swap and light remix of this song from a year ago, the quality is about the same, though somewhere along the lines I lowered the volume of the organ a bit too much. From last year's notes: "… I discovered Argentinean vocalist, Denisse Ferrara, on Fiverr, and she amazingly supplied 9 vocal tracks for this song. I went for a foreign accent vocal to give the song a 'world' flavour, but the downside of that is that some words become obscured due to accent. I'm nonetheless extremely pleased with the result of these vocals - Denisse has brought the song to life. … In the main vocal track I had to up the gain over some phrases and lower 2 or 3, making 24 changes in total, then in the 2nd vocal track I did the same 4 times. All in all it took me 2 weeks to get the balance of all 9 tracks as I wanted them." Last year I also posted the "[smooth]" version of the song with a different vocalist, but I had one failed attempt with the "[baroque]" with a Fiverr Indian vocalist, then 2 long lasting disastrous experiences with a foreign lady who misrepresented herself as English, then ditto with an American lady, both of the latter 100% failing to understand the exact same instructions which the 1st 3 clearly understood, but long story short I've ended up using the "[smooth]" version vocalist's stem files on the "[baroque]" and it's turned out to be the best version of the 3, so that I'll post after I later post the "[smooth]". Always leave the best until last! As this is a very long intro the full lyrics are on the YouTube post, so please click on 'watch on YouTube' if you're interested. Other than the title and end title images there's only one image in the video so as not to detract from the music and lyrics. Cast in order of appearance: Warm Pad & Strings: Enya44 - Soft Ev. Techno Orche ~ uncredited Kalimba: World Beat 2 South African Dance ~ uncredited Marimba ~ Key Island Groove Quartet ~ Todd London Vocals: real human being ~ Denisse Ferrara Bass: Country Rock Guitar Solo Pop Band ~ Tobin Frank Drums: Slow County Pop w/ Tenor Solo ~ Brian Fullen Organ: Country Rock Guitar Solo Pop Band ~ Gene Rabbai Piano: East Dock Latin Fusion Gtr Solo ~ Jeff Lorber Acoustic Guitar: 3 Guitar Country Rock ~ Tony King Guitar solo: Modern Groove Soloist, Brit Rock ~ Dave Cleveland 4/4 ~ C ~ 95 bpm ~ 156 bars ~ 6:24
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Chay, well, this song is like an old friend. Nice arrangement, and I quite like Denisse's vocals and how you've mixed them. Am not doing a direct comparison, but I'd agree with your general statement that "the quality is about the same" though these vocals are much more polished than I remember.
DC Ron
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Chay,
Wow! Denisse really brings this one to life. She is the perfect singer for this piece. Great arrangement and an awesome mix
Excellent!
Bob
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SOunds terrific, Chay. Excellent harmonies too. Unique and very entertaining song and images. Love those lyrics! So very well done. You can stop talking about failures now.
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Chay,
Wow! Denisse really brings this one to life. She is the perfect singer for this piece. Great arrangement and an awesome mix
Excellent!
Bob I agree with Bob. Also her harmonies were fantastic.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Chay, well, this song is like an old friend. Nice arrangement, and I quite like Denisse's vocals and how you've mixed them. Am not doing a direct comparison, but I'd agree with your general statement that "the quality is about the same" though these vocals are much more polished than I remember. Thanks, Ron. I really wish that I could have upped the production quality to match the quality of the vocals stems. What disappointed me with Soren AI Mastering was that most of the presets auto-limit the overall gain ~ a lot of waveforms look like they've had a haircut as the channels look like ========== ~ as it automatically made the quieter opening vocals very loud, then as other instruments came in the vocals volume suddenly dropped. Even though the overall "quality is about the same" I'm still very pleased to have done the channel-swap. Very heart-warming to read "this song is like an old friend".
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Chay
Wow! Denisse really brings this one to life. She is the perfect singer for this piece. Great arrangement and an awesome mix
Excellent!
Bob Thankd, Bob! I'll definitely be employing Denisse again. I already have one song I mostly want her backing vocals on, plus another probably for her alone, but I first need to record a demo of each so she knows what to sing and where and that's currently impossible where I live.
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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SOunds terrific, Chay. Excellent harmonies too. Unique and very entertaining song and images. Love those lyrics! So very well done. You can stop talking about failures now. Thanks, Marty. Besides being a powerful singer - D's demo on Fiverr is mind-blowingly good and shows her potential more than her own YouTube material - plus she's a lovely person to communicate with. You're writing "Love those lyrics!" is a positive example of "with your bare face hanging out"!  Think about the bass solo idea!
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Chay,
Wow! Denisse really brings this one to life. She is the perfect singer for this piece. Great arrangement and an awesome mix
Excellent!
Bob I agree with Bob. Also her harmonies were fantastic. Both of the singers I employed for the different "FLD" versions amazed me re the amount of stem files they supplied, lead and harmony vocals. It was so disappointing that 2 other Fiverr singers couldn't even understand what I wanted when 3 previous ones had no problem. As I've just recently sorted the vocals for the 3rd "[baroque]" version, which I now think is the best of the 3, I have other songs I need bringing to life. Thanks for the positive feedback, Mario!
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Sounds good to me, Chay, I think you found the perfect vocalist for this song. Looking forward to hearing more in the future!
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Excellent result in this project! I agree with all who have said that the vocalist's harmony tracks are amazing--I wonder if you directed her on this? I esp like the gentle movement of the song. My one suggestion: I think the vocal element is so stunning and attractive that I would have cut the guitar solo-ing way down so that the listener can get back into the vocal groove, which I think is the strongest part. But, besides that, I loved the composition and the repeating melody note motif...great work all the way around!
Windows 11, Intel Core i5-8600T 2.3Ghz, 16 gig ram, BIAB 2025 MegaPak, SampleTank 4, Keystation49 Kybd, Neewer NW-800 mic
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Tano pretty much nailed our thoughts on the harmonies and the arrangement. And we further agree with the melody note repeats. I think you were fortunate to connect with such a great vocalist. And especially one that you could well communicate with. I rambled on a bit about mastering below. Apologies  Enjoyed it, J&B PS There is a post entitled "Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms" on the off topics forum. I responded twice and my second response has some reference to our mastering techniques. You might find the info regarding the use of a "reference song" of some interest. FWIW Mastering for us is very personal regarding what WE want it to achieve. No way could we turn that over to AI. I want control over every aspect of it. You can't make a bad mix sound good with mastering but you can make a good mix sound bad. For us the goal is to make good mix sound great. And you have a good mix. And if your mastering program is brickwalling the mix it's time to try something else.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Hi, Chay. Denisse does a fine job with this. You wrote: I really wanted my vocal songs to be of a much better quality... I'm not sure what issue you've got, because it sounds good. As Bud mentioned, the real work happens in the mix. To quote Google's AI summary, mastering "polishes the final mix, making it sound its best across different playback devices and ensuring a consistent, cohesive sound." Assuming the mix is good, there are quite a few tools that will get you that sparkle that's associated with mastering. Most of the mastering tools will focus on bringing your mix into a generally accepted EQ curve. You can also adjust the EQ of the stems to help them fit into the mix better, such as adding high pass filters to everything but the bass so there's not a lot of buildup of low-frequencies that can create muddy mixes. Figuring out where you want specific elements to sit in the mix, and then bandpassing them so they stay out of other tracks is another common action. TrackSpacer is a neat tool for carving harmonic space out of other tracks so they don't mask important tracks. It's one of my favorite plugins. I haven't tried Waves' Curves AQ, but it's on my To-Do list. It automates the things I mentioned, and even seems to have functionality like TrackSpacer. But really, the mix sounds good.
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Sounds good to me, Chay, I think you found the perfect vocalist for this song. Looking forward to hearing more in the future! Thanks, Dave. More than anything now I want to be posting sung songs, but where I live I never get the privacy to record live, so even where I want a female vocalist I still have to record a demo first to show how it needs to be sung.
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,549
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Excellent result in this project! I agree with all who have said that the vocalist's harmony tracks are amazing--I wonder if you directed her on this? I esp like the gentle movement of the song. My one suggestion: I think the vocal element is so stunning and attractive that I would have cut the guitar solo-ing way down so that the listener can get back into the vocal groove, which I think is the strongest part. But, besides that, I loved the composition and the repeating melody note motif...great work all the way around! Hey, Tom. No, I didn't have to direct Denisse on the vocal harmonies. It's all her own very professional work. Lucy who sings the differently instrumented "[smooth]" version of the song also provided amazing harmony vocal stem files. I hope to post that here the week after next. This "[rock]" version is 90% the same instrumentation as "Deya Flows V2" - it's 100% the same chord structure - and the Dave Cleveland guitar solo also takes up the whole of the 2nd cycle of the 3 cycles, but I love that guitar solo so much that I just didn't want to shorten it for this.
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Joined: May 2023
Posts: 1,549
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Tano pretty much nailed our thoughts on the harmonies and the arrangement. And we further agree with the melody note repeats. I think you were fortunate to connect with such a great vocalist. And especially one that you could well communicate with. I rambled on a bit about mastering below. Apologies Enjoyed it, J&B PS There is a post entitled "Loudness Target Limits for Streaming Platforms" on the off topics forum. I responded twice and my second response has some reference to our mastering techniques. You might find the info regarding the use of a "reference song" of some interest. FWIW Mastering for us is very personal regarding what WE want it to achieve. No way could we turn that over to AI. I want control over every aspect of it. You can't make a bad mix sound good with mastering but you can make a good mix sound bad. For us the goal is to make good mix sound great. And you have a good mix. And if your mastering program is brickwalling the mix it's time to try something else. J&B, thanks for the response and for the extra re mastering. You echo what I've read online, many commenters being anti-AI. Soren AI Mastering also has the reference track options and I've tried many from my CD collection which I have on PC, but I found the same not good enough results as I did from the presets/profiles. What I found worked best, but still not quite good enough, was using the WAV file of the actual music I was attempting to master! I was peeved today to receive an email advertising the launch of the 1.2 version of SAIM which now has 27 Style presets, not just the 6 on my only recently bought 1.1 version, but I'm definitely not upgrading to it as they want another €99 and I just don't have any faith in the product. I even tried it on solos stem files - there's only 1 Style for Piano alone - but while it works with piano and organ stems when I try any other instrument - guitar, fiddle, saxophone, etc - I get an error message. I'll check out that 'off topic' post you mentioned once I'm done here. Thanks for that!
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Posts: 1,549
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Hi, Chay. Denisse does a fine job with this. You wrote: I really wanted my vocal songs to be of a much better quality... I'm not sure what issue you've got, because it sounds good. As Bud mentioned, the real work happens in the mix. To quote Google's AI summary, mastering "polishes the final mix, making it sound its best across different playback devices and ensuring a consistent, cohesive sound." Assuming the mix is good, there are quite a few tools that will get you that sparkle that's associated with mastering. Most of the mastering tools will focus on bringing your mix into a generally accepted EQ curve. You can also adjust the EQ of the stems to help them fit into the mix better, such as adding high pass filters to everything but the bass so there's not a lot of buildup of low-frequencies that can create muddy mixes. Figuring out where you want specific elements to sit in the mix, and then bandpassing them so they stay out of other tracks is another common action. TrackSpacer is a neat tool for carving harmonic space out of other tracks so they don't mask important tracks. It's one of my favorite plugins. I haven't tried Waves' Curves AQ, but it's on my To-Do list. It automates the things I mentioned, and even seems to have functionality like TrackSpacer. But really, the mix sounds good. Thanks a lot for that extra re mastering, David. As I replied to B&J it echoes what many have stated online or in videos. I've actually had a look ate Waves/Curves and although there's more to it than in Soren AI Mastering I won't try it out as I now don't trust "auto"!
Some favourite Waoist Adages:
#1: Play on the Way.
#13: Ask not for whom the flower blooms, it blooms for you.
#58: Bring consciousness to it.
#63: On the road to effortlessness, effort must be made.
#92: Be Love Now, the rest will come on its own.
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Yes, she is the one for this song! Keep it. I loved listening to her voice.
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Journeyman
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Well, this fits her voice like a glove. She's able to communicate something of the essence, not just the lyrics. It all sounds good over here, not that my set up is remotely great, but maybe that says even more about the mix.
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Your song works very well with vocals, I would do that more often. Enjoyed my listen ![[Linked Image - Only viewable when logged in]](https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/images/icons/default/thumbs_up.gif)
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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