PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums RealBand TIPS....WHEN RB MIGHT BE A BETTER ALTERNATIVE VIZ BIAB. MAJOR FEATURE DIFFERENCES.

TIPS....WHEN RB MIGHT BE A BETTER ALTERNATIVE VIZ BIAB.
MAJOR FEATURE DIFFERENCES.
(RB = REALBAND, BB = BAND IN A BOX.).

1.INTRO.

the aim of this document is to detail various major feature differences between rb and bb and where imho rb might be a better alternative to use.
reason being new users might be confused by when to use bb and when to use rb. imho this type of document is overdue because from what ive seen over the years...there seems to be confusion, particularly for new users.
(note ive suggested to pg that a video of rb and biab feature differences might be very usefull for new users. because there are many diffs.)

let me start by saying that its important to read the manuals and faq's and view the vids of both biab and rb in order to get the best out of both....and so you compare features.
all of such are on this web site. there are various vids also if one googles etc etc.
NOTE...other rb users feel free to add anything ive omitted...as i know i will probably forget something.
(let me also note for powertracks (ptw) users they might find it usefull too as in concept ptw is rb minus the extensive rb auto accompany and track generation features.)

2.A PERSPECTIVE.

heres how i look at both bb and rb conceptually as to when each might be used.
in the past in recording studios a song often might be created initially as a rough demo as proof of concept...ie...'does this song idea work'.
or 'does this pig fly'...lol.
then, the powers that be, decideing that it does fly...then ok produceing the song....includeing often involving lots of expensive studio hours spent as well as hiring seasoned session musicians....and also sometimes useing very large track counts.
given the above i often look conceptually at bb as my 'song idea scratchpad'.
ie bb when i want to get a rough demo of a song idea down fast and proof of concept of a song idea. eg a rough demo i can show to others for feedback and hopefully unbiased comment.
but i view rb as per the studio example above as the vehicle for full blown production of the song takeing advantage of its many unique features i havent seen in any other music app.
as an aside let me say that i dont view it as a case of bb versus rb ...BUT...
often useing both TOGETHER for the betterment of the song.
its sorta like a marriage where each side has various things to offer.
depending on the situation tho' there are times when ive used only bb or rb.

3. WHERE RB IS HIGHLY USEFULL (A SUMMARY).

..you have a multi-input sound interface and you want to record several tracks AT THE SAME TIME. you can do this in rb. eg a group with 8 members etc.

..you are doing a song with an odd time signature (OTS).... rb is a better solution to try out imho as there are advantages. eg lets say the song is 6/8 ie the denominator is 8 then you will see graphically say in tracks view the 8 divisions in the bar....other time sigs same deal.

..you want to do a 48k sampling rate song...then rb is the vehicle for you.
(see in this tips forum the tip detailing this.).

..you have a need for fractional tempo features eg 120.456 or are dealing with a fractional tempo song...definitely...you should be useing rb.

..you want to do detailed audio and/or midi recording and editing then imho rb is the vehicle to do such. i find such editing easier in rb. and also you can do easily such things as 'oh i like that lick at bars 24 to 32 but want the same at bars 64 to 72' sort of idea. NOTE...in particular get into rb bars view and understand its ability to move chunks around. eg...you can even copy and paste multiple bars of multiple tracks at the same time and track duplication is lovely and quick if say you want a dry track and also a dupe you add fx to in order to experiment. you could even dupe original recorded track to several other tracks for experimentation. eg lets say you wanted bits of a vocal alternating tween left and right speaker. no prob just dupe and edit.

..you need/want lots of tracks to develope the song to try out lots of ideas then rb is the vehicle >>>max 255 audio/midi tracks.
for example multiple take situations.

..you want to build custom unique to you midi drum and/or click tracks.
you can do this useing the rb drum grid editor.
also note you can do 'quickie' drum tracks/clicks in various styles.
you can also use rb features to do crafty drum solos which might not be immediately apparent.
(as you delve into rb you'll find all sorts of crafty unique features in rb i havent seen in any other music app.)

..you want to 'comp' best bits of various takes on various tracks down to one final track...eg vocals or lead guitar licks...you can do this easily in rb.

..if you need smpte time code support then rb has this.
(ive never used it tho'....so...do your own testing/evaluation to see if it meets your needs.)

..of course you can drag rb tracks into any other daw you might use as long as D and D is supported in that app.
also vice versa.

..PLUS i find analysing midi songs easier in rb.
eg import midi song and BAM rb seperates to individual midi tracks as well as does chord interpretation. (there is also a midi data stream analyser.)

..note//other points..frankly i far prefer working in rb tracks view viz bb tracks view due to rb tracks view extensive features.
also the new user might explore rb mixer view and see how much this might be usefull. its very different from the bb mixer.
there is a guitar fretboard view you might also find usefull.
as well you can have scrolling lyrics and use a event list editor.
honestly just too much to list...its a cornucopia of features.

..two other VERY IMPORTANT points i would like to mention re rb.
first being if you drag down the bottom edge of the track you will see further settings. the second being its absolutely imperative to right click over a track to expose what i call the 'loooong' menu that pops up that exposes additional important very usefull features and settings.
of course the main menus at the top should be understood as to feature use also.
just a simple but usefull feature is testing audio performance of a pc.
(my new pc rb reports over 300 tracks. but halve this i recommend to allow a pc resource buffer. if a low track count is reported by rb you might want to look at useing a more powerfull pc if you want to have large track and plugin counts on any songs.particularly if the plugins are not low pc resource ones.)
rb will also report cpu use...and for some reason i cant explain i prefer the mp3 creator feature in rb to any other ive tried.

..let me also say dont underestimate rb's suite of included plugins.
before reaching for a non pg plugin give these plugins a fair shake.
i like them because they consume very little pc resources compared to many ive tried..
ive used the pg ones on a ton of songs includeing some in my sig and nobody ever has said to me 'ya should have used xyz non pg plugin.'
in fact sometimes i havent been able to get the same sound picture even with a ton of outboard gear in a studio.
some people have even said they prefer my demos to studio facilities where i tried to redo a song and failed....such is life...lol.

finally if i were a new rb user i would make a list of features in rb that would be usefull to you compared to bb. as bb and rb have lots of subtle differences.
and because my work methods probably are different than yours.

3..WRAP UP.

PLEASE PLEASE !!!!...if your a new user also go thru' the many rb 'tips of the day'.
this will expose the many many usefull extensive and deep features of rb and hopefully doing such you will realise what a huge deal rb is.
i mention this because i suspect some new users might say to themselves...
'well heck its free so it cant be any good'. imho nothing could be further from the truth. and the more one uses it one will realise rb is a VERY BIG DEAL for doing songs, and its getting better and better all the time.
i'm hoping some very big things are coming for rb 2026.


i think this covers the major points.
as i said before i'm sure i missed something major.
please also note i havent commented on notation features as i'm a dunce at such and feel unqualified on the topic. i'll leave it to others to comment on such.
i hope the above is helpfull.

happiness.

om

Well said Sir OM. RB is far better than it is given credit for. It simple does a great job. I will say it weakness is in it's lack of super slick editing. It was never based on cutting edge clip based editing. That said the feature set is rich and deep and it does just about everything you need. It just does it a bit different. In the last two to three years it has come forward very nicely. Comping is better. the mixer view can be cleaned up the main tracks view is cleaner and the clutter can be eliminated. Generation, regeneration, and partial generation is fully functional unlike using the plugin version of BB in another DAW program. I find RB super useful to work in. I am hoping PGM will give it a little bit of love this year again and make it even better.

One thing I'd like them to fix is the metering in PGPeakLimit, otherwise I agree with Rob above.
It did seem to get stale for a couple years a while back, but the last few years have been very nice improvements.
Those who haven't tried it in a while may want to take a look.

I second that thought on the peak limit fix. It used to work very well then quit working about 4 years ago. I'm using a free limiter called LoudMax now.

A very nice write up Old Muso! I use BIAB as you mention in paragraph 2 to create song ideas and then use Realband to flesh it out and make the studio recording. The two programs together make a great combo!

Yeah, I have other limiters too, but it really should get fixed.

I think the biggest advantage of RB is that you can see all the tracks immediately from the tracks view and its easy to edit individual tracks,or regenerate and bring in plugins wherever you want them. It's all visible and obvious where things are.

Bob/all;...

thanks to you all for your comments.

to all RB users....some added points...

as nobody seems to want to do it....sigh...and for newbies/lurkers...
i'm going through in detail at a very very deep level feature differences between rb and bb.
fyi at this juncture i have formed two high level conclusions.

1..rb does a ton of things bb doesnt do....last count over 30 features....
once one digs into all the neat deep rb features....
(includeing non pg music apps that ive tried.)
2..the only advantage i can see useing bb and its something ive done many times over the years is to use bb for the following...
as i said before generating session musician tracks in a blink of an eye assuming one is useing a reasonably powerfull pc eg ryzen or intel fast processors.
for example i tested bb track generation here on an old clunker pc...and the generation of tracks obviously was slower than blink of an eye on my ryzen 7 pc with its m.2 etc etc.

thus it makes sense imho to use bb for quickly roughing out song ideas and then bonking the genned tracks over into rb eg by dragging tracks from bb or say importing the bb song into rb due to rb large track counts.
additionally i see for me no point useing the bb as plugin to another music app because rb can do easy transfer of tracks into another non pg music app...eg i drag rb tracks into reaps...in addition the rb daw has more features than the bb plugin.
(read the rb manual.)
one final point...and its a ymmv...as i'm no notation expert...but...i'm blown away by the number of notation features in rb the more i explore them.
thus i ponder how many people at least check out if these features meet their needs before paying for something. maybe the rb notation arent for all hard core notation experts..but only way to check is to try the features out with the rb manual.

i'm hoping 2026 rb will be a great advance for us users.

happiness to all.

om

ADDENDUM....2 points.

1..please NOTE i'm not knocking bb in any way or fashion.
its just that rb has various benefits and features that bb doesnt.
2..this exercise of produceing a document detailing feature advantages of rb is takeing
a bit looonger...as rb is soooo deep. family responsibilities get in the way so please bear with me.

OM, thanks for this very detailed, well thought-out thread. Every few years I put all my toys aside and dig into RB for a few days, searching for the answers to the questions you have provided in this thread. So I think I can take a break from that for at least the near term. My music needs don't lend themselves to the strengths of RB as you've described them, but that's super useful for me to know. MUCH appreciated!

DC RON.

thanks for your kind comments....appreciated.

ALL.

as promised here is further detailing re when rb might be a better fit for a musicians needs...
before getting into things let me say that both bb and rb are very VERY deep music apps as obviously over the years pg have added lots of different features in order to meet lots of user feature requests..and keep users happy.

let me also say its a very complex task that i undertook.
in some ways a no win situation for me due to the complexity involved.
soooo...please allow for the fact that there might be omissions ive made and errors due to the fact that as i said both bb and rb are very deep......
if someone feels ive screwed up and can produce a better document detailing when rb might be a better fit for a users song project.......feel free....
you will have my utmost respect as its a darn complex task....and i'm happy to get egg on my face (lol.) for the betterment of all us rb users...
if ANYONE feels ive missed anything...i'll be happy to amend or add to this document and of course attribute to them.
ONE BIG THING i would like to mention and its top of my list is that i feel....
AT THIS POINT OF TIME...rb tracks view is far ahead of bb tracks view.
i just find the rb tracks view far far easier than the new bb tracks view.
BUT haveing said that its only to be expected as rb tracks view has been around for years while bb tracks view is new....and i think it only fair to say that its pretty obvious that bb tracks view (a great concept for bb users imho..) will over time be fleshed out with further features. i'm just trying to be fair here...but at this point imho the combo of the rb long menu for a track in conjunction with rb tracks view is very VERY powerfull for doing songs.
plus of course all the ways one can do auto-accompany and track genning in rb as well as the various user views rb offers....makes it unique in some ways compared to other daws/music apps.
i invite the reader, if one doubts me to go through in detail and understand the rb tracks view/looong track menu pop up combo viz in comparison the bb tracks view.
(ps...fyi...ive suggested to pg that bb new tracks view is a grrreat concept...
but that it needs imho various built in features a la rb tracks view....
to quote spock...lol...'its only logical.')

finally let me say (as an ex programmer...) obviously both bb and rb have been developed by very talented people...to sum up... this stuff isnt trivial.
as ive said before on these forums....a developer faces many many challenges which the normal person might not be aware of unless a few programming courses are taken.
now i hope the following added details will be of help particularly to new pg users.
lets get to it re rb features...in no particular order.
(to my fellow rb users please feel free to add to the list if ive missed something.)

....audio sub grouping.
....record mixer moves.
....pitch to midi conversion.
(eg try on single notes maybe sung ? results can vary.)
....midi guitar cleanup.
....3D drum kit window plus ability to use pc kbd to record for such.
....instrument tuner view.
....tone generator.
....detailed very usefull midi monitor view.
....easy swap tracks feature.
....volume nodes...new feature.
....easy dragging of a selected section of a track one might like into another daw.
(obviously can also drag over whole tracks also.)
....split stereo track to two tracks.
....midi vocoder.
....fix tuning.
....reverse/backwards feature.
(eg if you want to put hidden messages in a song for listeners...lol.)
....generation of your own (or standard) midi drum track patterns.
(rapid fill track with drum pattern in various styles ...with ability to use say plug in a synth and get that 'throbbing' synth rhythm one hears in some films etc if one is crafty and gets to know rb's tons of nice midi features)
....vst/vsti handling features.
(make your own conclusions...i feel rb does a better job.)
....fill button in tempo map to gradually increase or decrease tempo.
....ability to handle not fixed but various ppq resolutions.
(pulses per quarter note.)
....de-ess/exciter/hum filter/noise suppression and various other tools/fx.
(ive used these to clean up old recordings...)
....multiple real charts for same soloist ?.
(this is a fuzzy area whether rb might be better...do your own tests.)
....custom metronome and write to midi track.
(one could build up a library of ones own metronomes.)
(note...its my opinion that midi features/midi track editing and track recording is way better in rb as rb has a plethora of midi features and tricks up its sleeve.)
....jukebox feature.
(i dont use it...all the typical formats are supported.)
....percentage quantisation feature.
(might be easier in rb ?)
....guitar tab printing ?
....eliminate midi note overlap.
....more vst/vsti instances.
(up to 16 fx per track.)
....proper horizontal mixer similar to other familiar music apps.
(displays up to 48 tracks at a time...256 total.)
....aux busses.
....a very nice feature is while recording audio one sees neat track graphics
showing overs....very usefull....i find this very cool.
....cpu useage stats.
....track waveform colours.
....big lyrics/clock windows...can resize to taste.
....align music to click track.
....streach/pitch shift obviously.


i'm sure ive missed something....i'm human...lol.
particularly its KEY you right click over a track to reveal all the features for a track....its extensive.
bottom line is if you want lots of tracks to record and more advanced audio/midi
features related to these tracks...rb might be for you.
note...in some cases bb and rb just do some things differently or overlap and also there are what i might 'fuzzy' not cut and dried areas.)
i would highly recommend that if you want to decide which app to use viz a feature you might need to do a song....
try in bb AND rb and run tests...and gradually build a series of notes to yourself which app you prefer when you need a certain feature.
this will make things easier...
(and also READ BOTH MANUALS to form your own opinions....i KNOW its a pain...but to realise the brilliance of these apps its important to understand them so you dont miss a feature that might take a song of yours to the next level.)

i hope this helps someone new agonising over whether to use rb....
have FUN as PG says.

happiness.

om

just an added comment.
prompted by a thread i just saw on drum fills.

if i want neato drum fills or DRUM SOLOS !
rb is a way WAY better vehicle.
(i use sometimes bb for quickie roughing out a song...then rb for detailed work like getting drum fills the way i want...)

some of many reasons for rb...
(note bb doesnt have a bars view thats very usefull for moving midi and audio drum fills around easily.)

1..ability to create any drum fill you want.
2..ability to easily move around/select the best of drum fills
that float your boat.
3..editing of fills/features...see rb tracks view...
4..crafty tricks for genning DRUM SOLOS !!

hth.

om

I still wonder why we get so many BIAB queries about things that are dead easy to do in RB. Do new users not try RB? Is there a reluctance to leave BIAB when a project is in progress? Or just that its only in this RB forum that the benefits of using RB are laid out. Those of us that started on floppy discs and midi only BIAB got used to editing in PT in the days when the programs were much easier to navigate with much less steep learing curves. So maybe the current daunting task of mastering BIAB puts people off jumping into another program.

Exactly. ^^
Plus it is presented as a free add-on, so people think its not as good/secondary.
If PG featured it more, people might actually try it.
It's a shame, really. I spent many years trying to change that .. and here we are.

Bob..you brought back a memory—the “disk” days of BIAB!!

Besides all of this, RB is essential for me since I’m not a performer. I can’t see using another DAW and losing access to both styles and RTs to flesh out my ideas.

Yeah I got rid of mine once floppies went away.
That included the full Roland sample set I had for S-30-50-550- W30 ...
Wish I had kept some of that on better media.

Agreed. It takes a pretty significant/specific need to move me out of that environment.

The big issue is that since RB was written in an older style code much like BiaB it does not include a few of the fancy editing tool many of the mainstream DAWs have. PGM has chosen to close that gap by creating tools that mimic those flashier tools but not rebuild RB. People get the sense that it is lacking. It is not in most cases it just handles the process differently. Still in a few areas it does lack a more modern tool set. Also since BiaB is the breadwinner it gets the majority of the focus.

Now with the BiaB plugin and the newest toy the iOS and soon android apps more time went into these, and RB has developed at a snail's pace. Some have fought for RB to pick up the pace, others have fought hard against it pushing for it to be abandoned and focus on the other programs. BiaB has been pushed hard toward becoming a more DAW like environment. This has caused RB to slow even more and BiaB to become more fragmented and many features are half implemented each year.

I thought the plugin would become far more then it is and take folks to great heights with their favorite DAWs but it has in many ways stagnated to some degree due to a push to send it toward a certain DAWs feature set.

I have as others here also have made strong suggestions that RB development pick up significantly but there is just too many projects in the oven now. I hope someday PGM takes a look at the incredible program they have in RB and does a few very special upgrades to make it really stand out.

1. make it Mac and PC available
2. add some real slick non destructive editing tools
3. Add a smart tool cursor
4. Cut it free from BiaB and make it a paid program (being a money make would make it more important and allow for a extra developer or two.)

Just to name a few but definitely a good start. BiaB is where it needs to be really. It just needs to have a few of the longtime bugs and half developed features completed. Focus on those things really great new content and let it be for a year or two.

Just my 2 cents worth.

All.

firstly let me say thanks for all participating in this thread.
even tho' rb has its 'quirks' i keep on looking at other apps and am drawn back to rb because its unique. there simply nothing like it.

just a couple comments.

1..does anyone find anything in the bb new plugin that has some advantage over rb ?...which is soo easy to drag rb tracks over to another daw.
i'd like a buck for each time ive dragged to reaper...i'd be rich lmao.
what am i missing ?? cos i try repeatedly to love the new bb plugin but i find every time i miss an rb feature. i'll now turn it over to you fine folks...
throw rotten eggs at me a la..'well om you idiot the plugin does 'X' that rb doesnt'. i really am trying to be unbiased on this.
let me also say if one is stem splitting then rb is a way better solution imho..
due to the plethora of features in rb tracks view and other features.
and the fact one has a slew of tracks to experiment with adding new material to old songs.
(ive tried splitting in bb....)

2..as to the old code base...i'll put my ex programmer hat on.
only the dev knows the code base obviously but i see no reason that rb couldnt be updated. if the older compiler used was an issue the coder can always call a assembler subroutine...blazing fast is asm.
but given most people are useing fast pc's these days i suspect there wouldnt be much exe time saved viz just useing the older compiler.
maybe the rb developer can jump in and tell me ive missed something and i'm an idiot'.
as i understand it rb was never made as a clip based daw but this has not stopped me doing a ton of songs useing it.
(sometimes with reaper and sometimes just rb...tho i'm useing reaps less these days due to some new nifty features in rb.)

over all it baffles me why some people never look at rb.
and has been said many times.....constantly weve seen a new bb user ask how to do something in bb thats a doddle in rb.
in summary pg graciously have given us all great tools...its just a question of useing the right tool for the job...for example it would drive me bonkers if i had to do an odd time sig song in bb compared to in rb cos rb tracks view and other features are darn usefull.
also the rb tracks view is miles ahead of bb new tracks view right now.

so to wrap up...as i said before use bb for 'quickie' song demos...then rb for fleshing out the song.
to any lurkers...THE RB TIPS OF THE DAY FEATURE IS A BLINKING GOLDMINE !!

hope i make some sense.
happiness to all.

om

I tried to help Jeff find example code once, voluntarily.

VB returns more results than Delphi, and VB is getting long in the tooth..
'// learned on VB, working in C# currently