Today a friend of mine gave me a book he thinks I might like. The timing could not have been better because I happen to be inbetween books right now.
I've read the front and back end flaps, a few reviews of it and the first few pages of the introduction. And it appears to address the intersection of music, art, neuroscience, psychology, culture and maybe a few other domains . . . all subjects I'm fascinated by.
The author is neuroscientist but has worked as a session musician, sound engineer and a record producer. Here is a quote from page 2 of the intro.
Many years later, Paul Simon told me that the sound is always what he was after too. "The way that I listen to my own records is for the sound of them; not the chords or the lyrics - my first impression is of the overall sound."
So far, I'm very much enjoying what this guy has to say.
For others interested in these areas and who might want to read along and discuss here or privately, this is one place to purchase it.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Reading this book is quite fascinating and is exposing me to concepts I had never thought of before. Here is a quote that I can't quite make sense of. Curious if anybody musically trained can break this apart for us folk that are self-taught.
"Led Zeppelin often tuned their instruments away from the modern A440 standard to give their music an uncommon sound, and perhaps to link it with the European children's folk songs that inspired many of their compositions."
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Some folks will change their tuner to 432 Hz rather than standard 440 Hz. As you know the 440 is the standard tuning of the A note above middle C. Some folks claim benefits of listening to 432 Hz music like reducing stress, mental healing and a whole bunch of other stuff. Other people suggest they do not notice any difference.
BIAB 2026 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, Mac Mini M4 with Logic Pro 11, Melodyne Studio, Luna Pro
<...snip...> Some folks claim benefits of listening to 432 Hz music like reducing stress, mental healing and a whole bunch of other stuff. Other people suggest they do not notice any difference.
The only thing I noticed was acoustic pianos all played out of tune - flat
Just kidding, of course. But seriously, I can't try that, as it's outside the range my saxophone will tune to.
It's interesting. Over seemingly centuries, everyone has had a thought on what the exact pitch of 'A' should be. The overall consensus now is that it should be 440Hz, but many artists (including Led Zepplin obviously) have chosen to alter it in an effort to create a more 'unique sound'.
(Also, the ACW would have a fit )
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
Some folks claim benefits of listening to 432 Hz music like reducing stress, mental healing and a whole bunch of other stuff. Other people suggest they do not notice any difference.
This is one of the baffling things to me regarding the quote. Are humans, on average, able to consciously notice a 8 Hz difference in notes (not pure tones) in a rock band that was known for ear shattering dB levels, or even at comfortable listening levels? I think no, but I could be wrong.
But even if the general untrained Zepelin fan could detect and understand sub-semitone differences how does that produce an "uncommon sound" since all you're doing is agreeing to a different frequency baseline?
And thirdly, how can non-standard tuning link to "European children's folk songs"? Wouldn't all instrument frequencies in the band be shifted up or down by the same amount?
My understanding is that we are designed to percieve and understand relative pitches in music, not absolute pitches.
I also wonder where the author got that info. If from a Zepelin interview, could that have been LSD talking??
Obviously, I'm not understanding everything regarding this quote.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
There are some who say we are all born with perfect pitch and we lose the ability to use it. The exceptions are folks from Asian countries where the inflections in words are so subtle that the ear remains attuned.
I don’t know about that.
As for pitch discrimination, I’ve know many audio engineers who were taught that people cannot distinguish a change of less than six cents. I proved I can hear down to four, but not less.
And the proponents of 432 Hz claim a mathematical origin as well as the historical precedent. Our church has a Steinway grand that was built in 1866 when it would have been perfect for a European orchestra. It can be tuned to 440 but by two days later will again be sitting happily at 432. It doesn’t help that the organ is at 442.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
Some folks claim benefits of listening to 432 Hz music like reducing stress, mental healing and a whole bunch of other stuff. Other people suggest they do not notice any difference.
This is one of the baffling things to me regarding the quote. Are humans, on average, able to consciously notice a 8 Hz difference in notes (not pure tones) in a rock band that was known for ear shattering dB levels, or even at comfortable listening levels? I think no, but I could be wrong.
But even if the general untrained Zepelin fan could detect and understand sub-semitone differences how does that produce an "uncommon sound" since all you're doing is agreeing to a different frequency baseline?
And thirdly, how can non-standard tuning link to "European children's folk songs"? Wouldn't all instrument frequencies in the band be shifted up or down by the same amount?
My understanding is that we are designed to percieve and understand relative pitches in music, not absolute pitches.
I also wonder where the author got that info. If from a Zepelin interview, could that have been LSD talking??
Obviously, I'm not understanding everything regarding this quote.
I duplicated a acoustic guitar track and then detuned one track by -8 cents and yes you can hear the chorus effect between the two tracks. However if all tracks are set to 432 can I tell the difference between the 440 and the 432 I have not done that before I suppose.
BIAB 2026 Ultrapack- Studio One Pro 7 Windows 11, Mac Mini M4 with Logic Pro 11, Melodyne Studio, Luna Pro
... It can be tuned to 440 but by two days later will again be sitting happily at 432. It doesn’t help that the organ is at 442.
Ouch!
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Professional & Windows 11, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors
................................ And the proponents of 432 Hz claim a mathematical origin as well as the historical precedent. Our church has a Steinway grand that was built in 1866 when it would have been perfect for a European orchestra. It can be tuned to 440 but by two days later will again be sitting happily at 432. It doesn’t help that the organ is at 442.
FYI - My wife's old upright piano is tuned to 432. Our now retired piano tuner said a lot of old uprights are tuned to 432 because at 440 they would not be in tune for very long. Those pianos' wooden components could not take the string tension. He was the piano tuner for the Eastman School of Music and the Hochstein School of Music, both in Rochester NY. He said those pianos were tuned to either 442 or 444 so the brightness and volume of the piano would cut through the orchestra. He also said he had a monthly agreement to retune and to replace any broken strings!
It takes courage for a man to admit his wife was wrong.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
And the proponents of 432 Hz claim a mathematical origin as well as the historical precedent.
Hmmm, I think these folks might have lost the debate, my understanding is 440 is the global standard. And I'm thinking any standard is somewhat arbitrary, but it's important that the world agree on a standard.
But I'm still trying to figure out the linkage (if any) between altered tuning and Zepelin's uncommon sound/European children folk songs.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
And the proponents of 432 Hz claim a mathematical origin as well as the historical precedent.
Hmmm, I think these folks might have lost the debate, my understanding is 440 is the global standard. And I'm thinking any standard is somewhat arbitrary, but it's important that the world agree on a standard.
But I'm still trying to figure out the linkage (if any) between altered tuning and Zepelin's uncommon sound/European children folk songs.
Maybe the linkage is the fact that if said children folk songs were ancient they may have been in 432 and Led Zeppelin may have wanted to emulate that. There is a lot of controversy about what sounds better, songs in 440 or songs in 432. Through out the ages there has been no tuning standard, that is until 1955, or 1939 if you want to include the suggestion to standardize 440. If you are interested in 432 here is the history of it:
In the days of recording to tape (which was often sped up), no 440 except with tuning forks, turntables with 10% tolerance in speed, cassettes with even less precise speeds, my answer is, "Who cares".
Learning songs from recordings by ear meant adjusting the pitch of your instrument first.
In my early career, we tuned to the piano that was on every stage, and they were hardly ever at 440. There were no guitar tuners, so the guitars were tuned by from the 6th string to match the piano, and then by ear, making it a bit like just tuning, instead of equal temperament.
Then came strobe tuners, followed by digital, and I don't really know if that's an improvement or not. Some of those old 60s recordings with slightly out-of-tune guitars would not be improved if they were tuned perfectly.
As far as I'm concerned, if it sounds good to me, it is good.
There is a lot of controversy about what sounds better, songs in 440 or songs in 432. Through out the ages there has been no tuning standard, that is until 1955, or 1939 if you want to include the suggestion to standardize 440. If you are interested in 432 here is the history of it:
This is becoming a quite worthwhile discussion. For those that don’t know, a big part of music for me is all about growth and this thread is promoting growth.
The article you supplied provided at least a glimpse of all the fuss that was required to get us where we are today. Good historical info. We should all hold those that participated in the 1939 London conference in high esteem.
“The modern standard of 440 Hz became more widely accepted in the 20th century, particularly following a 1939 international conference in London. The British Standards Institution recommended 440 Hz as the standard pitch, and this tuning gained more traction globally after World War II.”
As good as that webpage is, it doesn’t shed the light I’m looking for in regards to the quote in question. So let me try this.
So you’re invited to a birthday party and you're the only muscian invited. And as they bring out the cake, someone starts singing Happy Birthday. Nobody is carrying a pocket tuner with them and no one has any preconceived ideas on “the proper key”. But as soon as the first note is sung, the entire room is able to sing along quite nicely. And even if a high-pitched woman or child starts everyone off, the low-pitch males can easily adjust their singing down an octave or two quite naturally to blend with the crowd. I find it amazing that we are wired this way.
Now back to the Zepelin quote. I’m still baffled by how an alternate tuning (432 for example) can some how create an “unusual sound” or be linked to some children’s folk song if the relationships among the notes are not altered. Presumably, the standard 440 is inadequate? For starters, who in the audience can say, “This music stinks because the tuning is all wrong”? likewise when a song is transposed say from Amaj to Cmaj (to meet the needs of a singer or other requirement) don’t we all recognize and enjoy the piece in the same way that Happy Birthday can be sung quite nicely in different keys?
I think part of the answer to all this involves “equal temperament” and how we are designed to understand and sing based on relative frequencies (the musical distance from one note to the next) as opposed to absolute frequencies.
But for that matter, I wonder if 440 tuning has its own set of compromises and is it possible that no tuning scheme is perfect in all situations? I understand that one benefit of 440 is that it allows (near?) perfect transposition.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
432 creates one more overtone within our hearing range, so there's that ..
440 has 46, 432 has 47.
If you’re counting the number of harmonics out to 20kHz, I’m not sure how relevant that is in listening to music. Many audiologists only test out to 8kHz, and many of us can't even hear out to that frequency.
20,000/440=45.5 20,000/432=46.3
8,000/440=18.2 8,000/432=18.5
What I do find interesting is how easy it is to take A440 for granted given the challenges the folks back in 1939 faced while establishing it. The more I learn about this the more I realize that a) 440Hz is to some degree arbitrary b) Much compromise was needed for this standard to be agreed upon c) A 440Hz standard is not “musically perfect” in every sense but it does solve important problems d) Musicians were happy (and are happy today with it)
I’m beginning to conclude that even with today’s computer-assisted, multi-factor optimization routines that we would not be able to come up with a practical standard meaningfully superior to A440. But then again, there’s much more of this book that remains to be read.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2025 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
[quote=MarioD]So you’re invited to a birthday party and you're the only muscian invited. And as they bring out the cake, someone starts singing Happy Birthday. Nobody is carrying a pocket tuner with them and no one has any preconceived ideas on “the proper key”. But as soon as the first note is sung, the entire room is able to sing along quite nicely. And even if a high-pitched woman or child starts everyone off, the low-pitch males can easily adjust their singing down an octave or two quite naturally to blend with the crowd. I find it amazing that we are wired this way.
Not at the birthday parties that I've attended. People start in different keys, and proceed to get louder and louder, and even less in tune at the end.
Quote
Now back to the Zepelin quote. I’m still baffled by how an alternate tuning (432 for example) can some how create an “unusual sound” or be linked to some children’s folk song if the relationships among the notes are not altered.
You're right, it's completely rubbish.
Quote
For starters, who in the audience can say, “This music stinks because the tuning is all wrong”? likewise when a song is transposed say from Amaj to Cmaj (to meet the needs of a singer or other requirement) don’t we all recognize and enjoy the piece in the same way that Happy Birthday can be sung quite nicely in different keys?
I have a singer in my Sunday group who thinks he can.
He asks if I changed the key every time he has trouble singing his part.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
Playable RealTracks Set 5
RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Norton Music
)
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean