Note that we aren't arguing for an interval like the perfect sixth to be treated as a chord. And in practice, power chords are almost always played on distorted guitars or basses. Neely agrees that it acoustically gains the "missing" third, which is why it can be treated as a chord.
.
With all respect! Please forgive me for even mentioning this. I hate to bring it up, but I am a music nerd if nothing else! I actually tried to avoid this whole discussion because this general topic can drive people crazy (when it really should not). And I agree everyone has been very polite. But, as incorrectly indicated above, the 6th is not perfect. It is either major or minor. Only the unison, forth and fifth are perfect. And that point about "...Neely agrees that it acoustically gains the missing third" does not make sense to me and I did not hear him say that?
Finally, regarding my credentials which were questioned above, I have three certificates from Berklee, two in Music Theory and one in Jazz Guitar performance [at the moment I can not find that 3rd one, maybe my memory is mistaken, but I have the other two on my wall along with my PhD. I have to admit, those records, plus a buck, would get me a cup of coffee at McDonalds (with the Sr Discount) and not much more. But I am proud of my studies. And again, more music nerd than academically trained in music.
I can’t comment on the debate regarding the 6th . . . way beyond my pay grade but maybe someday . . . if I'm lucky
However, I do have to agree that we’ve all been polite, professional and relatively focused on the subject(s) at hand.
If I pull the camera back and zoom out, this thread is mainly about Levitin’s book, This is Your Brain on Music. Secondarily, and right now, it’s about the fascinating musical relationship between Joni’s ambiguous chords and Jaco’s skill in dis-ambiguating them. And now, the idea of what a chord is, what are ambiguous chords and other music theory elements. And the path of this thread may even take more twists and turns . . . it’s all good and my hope is that we all learn (and share) and that we remain friends. The more I read, the more I see that music is infinite and infinitely fascinating.
Dr Dan, as for your credentials, my instincts told me you had some but I had no idea they were as distinguished as they are. Ten short years ago I couldn’t tell you the difference between F and F# or quarter note from a half note. I also agree that there should be no reason whatsoever that discussing music theory should drive anyone crazy. That said, I’m sure we all have something of value to share and I hope you share more. I also hope I’m not the only one here seeking to grow musically.
Also, let’s not forget the young, talented, educated musicians that are lurking and pondering whether to support this forum and BiaB. The depths of our discussions here, how we conduct ourselves and the (perceived and real) value of BiaB will determine the size of the user base for years to come.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
But, as incorrectly indicated above, the 6th is not perfect. It is either major or minor.
You got me there! I'm 100% wrong with my terminology!
But I was wrong about much, much more than that!
Because I was in at a doctor's visit with my wife where I couldn't watch any videos on my phone, I stupidly asked Gemini to look up what Adam said about power chords.
That's on me, because I know better. Because while Gemini cited sources and gave a summary, that was a hallucination, and I was happy with it returning an answer that aligned with what I wanted, so I didn't wait and look into it further instead tippy-tappy-typing on my phone.
Now that I'm back at my computer, I've been able to double-check the information and while the information is correct, Adam never said those things.
But again that's my mistake. I should have checked the source myself, because I know better. When I couldn't find the information that Gemini claimed was in the video, I asked Gemini to explain where the answer came from. It hallucinated this response:
Quote
Adam Neely often discusses power chords through the lens of psychoacoustics and tonality, rather than just simple guitar technique...
It turns out to be completely untrue. When I asked Gemini to find a specific video where he made that claim, Gemini hallucinated:
Quote
Adam Neely discusses the perception of the third in power chords most explicitly in his video titled "What's in between Major and Minor chords? | Q+A" (and occasionally in his analysis of blues tonality).
He explains that while a power chord consists only of a root and a fifth, the 5th harmonic in the overtone series is a pure major third. When you add distortion to a guitar signal, you are essentially "squashing" the waveform, which drastically increases the amplitude of these higher overtones.
The citation looks good, but of course, there's nothing of the sort in the video. When I asked where Neely talks about the fifth harmonic, Gemini hallucinated:
Quote
Adam Neely discusses the audibility of the 5th harmonic in the video titled "Why is major 'happy?'" (2016) and refers to it in several Q&A videos.
Again, that wasn't true. Gemini hallucinated:
Quote
I apologize for that error. You are correct—the video "Why is major 'happy?'" focuses on the concept of brightness and cultural associations rather than the physics of the harmonic series. I conflated two different videos in my previous response.
The specific explanation you're looking for—where he discusses the 5th harmonic being perceived as a major third in distorted power chords—actually appears in his video: "What's in between Major and Minor chords? | Q+A"
When told that didn't appear in the video, Gemini hallucinated again:
Quote
I believe the video I was searching for is actually "The Blues Scale is a Lie" (or a very similar deep dive into blues tonality). In that video, he discusses the "neutral third" and how guitarists use power chords to avoid a strict major/minor choice, while the overtone series from the distortion provides the "major" foundation.
There was no such video by Adam Neely. Gemini hallucinated:
Quote
I am very sorry for the confusion. I have been referencing concepts that Adam Neely frequently discusses in his videos, but I have repeatedly given you the wrong video titles and incorrect transcript details. I was mistaken about "The Blues Scale is a Lie"—no such video exists with that title on his channel.
The video you are looking for is titled "Why 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' sounds so powerful" (or a very similar title focusing on Nirvana/Grunge).
In his video "The Music Theory of Grunge" (and specifically in his discussion of "Smells Like Teen Spirit"), he breaks down the physics of the power chord. Here is the actual information from that context...
And when told that no such video existed, Gemini finally said:
Quote
I understand your skepticism. After a thorough search of Adam Neely's video catalog to find the specific explanation you’re looking for regarding power chords, distortion, and the 5th harmonic, I have determined the following:
The concept I previously described—that power chords work because distortion generates harmonics that "fill in" the missing major third (the 5th harmonic)—is a common music theory explanation, but I cannot find a video where Adam Neely specifically makes this claim.
Lesson learned: From now own, I'll wait until I'm on my computer and do my own darned research instead of cutting corners and relying on Gemini to give accurate summaries.
Personally, I don't really care if people want to think of a "power chord" as a chord or not. Music theory is a system for organizing an understanding about how music works, not a monolithic thing. If a set of pitches has a harmonic function and you feel the need to call it a chord... go for it. Or not.
Apologies if this has been mentioned before in the thread, as I have just looked in for the first time.
I understand from reading on the net in the past regarding the Harmonics on a guitar, that the string vibrates in different sections along its length when plucked.
So my understanding is (could well be wrong that the Harmonics for a C note would be E and G)
So just wondering for anyone here who has gone into the very technical side of things, does that mean that when you pluck for example the C on the third fret of the fifth string on a guitar that the C is sounded, but in fact the E and G are played Harmonic wise as well but we don't really hear those Harmonic Overtones due to the loudness of the fundamental C note?
If the above is correct wouldn't that be a good way of understanding why the chord of C major with its C E and G sound so nice together?
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Rootless voicing by themselves, almost(?) by definition don't really resolve anywhere ... the chord progression is never quite 'done'.
Wagner wrote Der Ring, a series of four operas that never really resolve till the final chord of Göitterdämmerung. I'll admit that performing Siegfried (the thrid and longest at nearly 5 hours with intermissions) in 2000 was about as much fun as I ever had on a gig. Being double-cast in the role of Wotan, it allowed me to play bass on the nights I wasn't singing. Wagner wrote wonderfully for the bass as I learned in high school when I played Die Meistersinger.
As for this so-called ambiguous chord discussion. Can't say that I've ever encountered it in over 60 years of gigging and teaching. One of the chapters in the 1964 Gene Leis book put it to bed for me when he discussed how C/E/G/A could be a C6 or an Am7 or an inversion of either depending on which note was the root. Context is everything.
How many of us are old enough to remember this?
My dad studied out of it. I read it but never really worked the exercises. When I started playing jazz and theater in the early '70s, the lessons on chord leading and melody cut down the learning curve on gigs as I encountered the need to know these things on guitar.
Bass was never an issue for me—I listened and played constantly so my fingers knew where to go. Besides my youth symphony chair in high school, I was jamming with Chet Baker on Monday nights at Ricardo's Pizza, a block from my house. He was in rehab and living at his mother's house in Milpitas. Get thrown into that pit and you learn quickly.
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Apologies if this has been mentioned before in the thread, as I have just looked in for the first time.
I understand from reading on the net in the past regarding the Harmonics on a guitar, that the string vibrates in different sections along its length when plucked.
So my understanding is (could well be wrong that the Harmonics for a C note would be E and G)
So just wondering for anyone here who has gone into the very technical side of things, does that mean that when you pluck for example the C on the third fret of the fifth string on a guitar that the C is sounded, but in fact the E and G are played Harmonic wise as well but we don't really hear those Harmonic Overtones due to the loudness of the fundamental C note?
If the above is correct wouldn't that be a good way of understanding why the chord of C major with its C E and G sound so nice together?
Or am I totally wrong here?
A very interesting question, I don't think you are wrong and Levitin addresses some of this.
When you listen to a single note played on an instrument, you’re actually hearing many, many pitches at once, not a single pitch. Most of us are not aware of this consciously, although some people can train themselves to hear this. The one with the slowest vibration rate – the one lowest pitch – is referred to as the fundamental frequency, and others are collectively call overtones.
Surprisingly, these other frequencies are often mathematically related to each other in a very simple way: as integer multiples of one another. So if you pluck a string and its lowest fundamental frequency is 100 Hz, the other frequencies will be 2x100 (200 Hz), 3x100 (300 Hz), etc.
Where this might not happen is when you play a pure sinusoidal tone/note on a synth.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
......................................... [i]When you listen to a single note played on an instrument, you’re actually hearing many, many pitches at once, not a single pitch. Most of us are not aware of this consciously, although some people can train themselves to hear this. The one with the slowest vibration rate – the one lowest pitch – is referred to as the fundamental frequency, and others are collectively call overtones. ........................................
I recorded a retired touring guitarist's daughter in my home studio. She sang a C note when it should have been a D. I simply moved the note up to a D; note I don't recall what pitch shifting program I was using at that time. He said that doesn't sound like her. He could tell that the harmonics/overtones for a D note are not the same for a C note. He was the only one I have ever met that could tell the difference.
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I recorded a retired touring guitarist's daughter in my home studio. She sang a C note when it should have been a D. I simply moved the note up to a D; note I don't recall what pitch shifting program I was using at that time. He said that doesn't sound like her. He could tell that the harmonics/overtones for a D note are not the same for a C note. He was the only one I have ever met that could tell the difference.
I certainly don't have the pitch detecting skills that this muscian has. And if I think about it, maybe having such skills is a curse because everywhere you go you probably hear music out of pitch. I'm guessing that would be annoying.
For grins I recorded and analyzed a single C note on my bass guitar. My error compared to the theoretical value is approx. 8.2% even though my clip-on tuner told be I had a solid “C note”.
There are a few computational things I could do to reduce this error. But I’m too busy at the present time. Nonetheless, this exercise illustrates what the YouTuber was saying regarding overtones.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
So just wondering for anyone here who has gone into the very technical side of things, does that mean that when you pluck for example the C on the third fret of the fifth string on a guitar that the C is sounded, but in fact the E and G are played Harmonic wise as well but we don't really hear those Harmonic Overtones due to the loudness of the fundamental C note?
If the above is correct wouldn't that be a good way of understanding why the chord of C major with its C E and G sound so nice together?
It's been covered.
And in fact, you do hear those overtones. Even if they aren't present in the audio, because of the way the ear works, it'll trigger a sympathetic resonance in the ear.
That's why there's a (slightly) audible major 3rd in a power chord, even if the strings don't directly create that pitch.
I certainly don't have the pitch detecting skills that this muscian has. And if I think about it, maybe having such skills is a curse because everywhere you go you probably hear music out of pitch. I'm guessing that would be annoying.
In high school I knew a fellow musician with perfect pitch. He told me he hated it! He said anything that was off in a band, chorus, or music in general drove him up a wall. He went on to college and we lost touch.
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In high school I knew a fellow musician with perfect pitch. He told me he hated it! He said anything that was off in a band, chorus, or music in general drove him up a wall. He went on to college and we lost touch.
Levitin spends a lot of time talking about pitch.
Pitch is so important that the brain represents it directly; unlike almost any other musical attribute, we could place electrodes in the brain and be able to determine what pitches were being played to a person just by looking at the brain activity. And although music is based on pitch relations rather than absolute pitch values, it is paradoxically, these absolute pitch values that the brain is paying attention to throughout its different stages processing.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
wonder what tuning they used to determine that. 440?
He didn't specify any particular tuning, I'm thinking that that's not that relevant. But he did say indicate something I kind of knew already.
Through studies of people with brain damage, we’ve seen patients who have lost the ability to read a newspaper but can still read music, or individuals who can play the piano but lack the motor coordination to button their own sweater. Music listening, performance and composition engage nearly every area of the brain that we have identified, and involve nearly every neural subsystem.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
Steve, I have seen videos of lifeless elders in nursing homes come to life when their favorite music is played.
For many years there have been discussions about what frequencies sounds the best, A at 440Hz or A at 432Hz. I wonder if a study has been done about the effects on the brain comparing both frequencies. I also wonder how many individuals can tell the difference. My wife's piano is at 432 and the only time I can tell a difference is when my guitar (A440Hz) and her piano are played simultaneously. Her piano is always out of tune
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Me "I just looked next to the potatoes and there it was"!
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wonder what tuning they used to determine that. 440?
He didn't specify any particular tuning, I'm thinking that that's not that relevant. But he did say indicate something I kind of knew already.
Through studies of people with brain damage, we’ve seen patients who have lost the ability to read a newspaper but can still read music, or individuals who can play the piano but lack the motor coordination to button their own sweater. Music listening, performance and composition engage nearly every area of the brain that we have identified, and involve nearly every neural subsystem.
Before Covid hit I played music for people in a dementia memory unit at a nursing home every Monday for over a year. I was totally amazed at what music did for these folks. They would even remember some words to the songs like "You Are My Sunshine" and others and sing along. I spoke to a High School Band Teacher and discussed what I had been witnessing with these folks. He told me there has been a lot of studies of the brain and music therapy. He said music is embedded in our brains from a very early age and is one of the last things the brain remembers. I was thinking stuff like twinkle little star and so on. It is very interesting indeed. Brian
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Steve, I have seen videos of lifeless elders in nursing homes come to life when their favorite music is played. <...snip...>
Years ago, we started out by doing volunteer gigs at the V.A. Hospital's nursing home sections. It was a way to show appreciation to those who served and came back damaged.
A few nursing homes and assisted living facilities and nursing homes got wind of this, and started hiring us. Short gigs, mid-weeks, low pay, but fill-in work.
It is amazing to see people who are in a non-communicative state suddenly brighten up and sing along to songs they know. It makes me feel like we are doing something important for that person.
Years later, we are getting paid by the VA to come when they want us, instead of us stopping by once or twice a year in our slow season. We also have a few assisted living facilities that hire us. One, once a month, another every other month, and the rest once in a while.
Like I said, the pay isn't great, but it's on days we wouldn't otherwise get booked, and the rewards are not the money, but the feeling that we are doing something good for health-compromised people.
Before Covid hit I played music for people in a dementia memory unit at a nursing home every Monday for over a year. I was totally amazed at what music did for these folks. They would even remember some words to the songs like "You Are My Sunshine" and others and sing along. I spoke to a High School Band Teacher and discussed what I had been witnessing with these folks. He told me there has been a lot of studies of the brain and music therapy. He said music is embedded in our brains from a very early age and is one of the last things the brain remembers. I was thinking stuff like twinkle little star and so on. It is very interesting indeed. Brian
I’ve never seen this phenomenon first-hand but I’ve watched documentaries on the subject and this power of music is quite fascinating. He goes on to say:
"The power of music to evoke emotions is harnessed by advertising executives, filmmakers, military commanders, and mothers. Advertisers use music to make a soft drink, beer, running shoe, or car seem more hip that their competitors’. Mothers throughout the world, and as far back in time as we can imagine, have used soft singing to soothe their babies to sleep, or to distract them from something that has made them cry."
I’d say that without music, we wouldn’t be quite as human as we are, it seems almost as important as language itself. And for some, music may be their primary language.
https://soundcloud.com/user-646279677 BiaB 2026 Windows For me there’s no better place in the band than to have one leg in the harmony world and the other in the percussive. Thank you Paul Tutmarc and Leo Fender.
I’d say that without music, we wouldn’t be quite as human as we are, it seems almost as important as language itself. And for some, music may be their primary language.
I once wrote an essay in college about how much a musicians brain works while playing It's amazing how much we do without even thinking about it.
That was really the draw for me to this thread initially, hoping people appreciate how intertwined we are with music, and how music helps our brains. I know it sounds silly in this day and age but we need to keep music in our schools.
Last edited by rharv; 01/20/2604:57 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
That was really the draw for me to this thread initially, hoping people appreciate how intertwined we are with music, and how music helps our brains. I know it sounds silly in this day and age but we need to keep music in our schools.
It is not silly. Music is the first thing to get cancelled when budgets get tight. It really ticks me off when music is out but sports are still included. Music is just is more important than sports IMHO.
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XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
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