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Hi, I have a purchased MIDI sequence that we had used before. Brass Section on Track 1 assigned to Channel 1. The "volume" level was 120. Driving a Ketron SD4 sound module. Other instruments on other tracks and channels. This had worked fine for several months then all of a sudden the Brass Section appeared to have gone away. Closer examination by muting the other instrument tracks showed that the volume level was very low for the Brass Section. BUT the volume control and Event view still showed the original setting of 120. Note that prior to starting to track down the cause of the problem NO EDITS to the file had been done. Exited Real Tracks and tried starting again. Even over power cycles of the computer (and Ketron SM) the problem remained. Tried increasing to 127 in the event view, no significant change to sound level. Tried applying a 200% velocity increase via edit menu, no significant change to sound level. All other tracks/instruments worked fine, full volume. I went back to the original .mid file from the downloaded zip received at time of purchase. Same problem in there so again no chance of any accidental edits to the file introducing the problem. Just for grins I changed the channel on Track 1 from 1 to 6 (since 6 was unused in this sequence). Instantly the volume level of the Brass Section was restored. Has anyone seen this before? Any suggestions on how to track down what might have happened with channel 1 that could cause the volume level of the associated instrument to be very low? Note: I tried changing the Brass Section to Piano, and the Piano sound level was also very low when using channel 1. I have other MIDI sequences that use Channel 1 and I have not seen this problem with those sequences. We have a older recording from the sequence where we were having the problem that has the Brass Section at normal volume, so it is not just a case of "mis-remembering" the sound level  Is there a setting option somewhere in RealBand that would impact volume level on an individual channel that would "stick" over system restarts? Thanks, Burt
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RealBand
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Channel 1 on the Ketron has been turned down.
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RealBand
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Every time you power the Ketron off and back on, it does a full reset. So I doubt that it could have a stuck channel.
Use the Event List to check what's going on with that.
Are you calling the Track numbers "channels" or are you actually referring to MIDI Channels with the 1 and 6?
--Mac
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Let's eliminate the Ketron. Set RB to use a DXi synth like the VSC and see if the brass section is right. If it is OK something must be amiss with the Ketro.
Mac is there a HARD reset for the Ketron?
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Did the patch itself get wrote over with a lower volume setting?
Is the new song using the exact same patch as the original??
"Is there a setting option somewhere in RealBand that would impact volume level on an individual channel that would "stick" over system restarts? "
This is possible if you open the program using a template ($Options.seq) or such, but highly unlikely.. if you were using it you would know about it.
"Tried increasing to 127 in the event view, no significant change to sound level. Tried applying a 200% velocity increase via edit menu, no significant change to sound level."
This only changes the velocity (how hard you hit the key), not the overall volume control for the MIDI channel. See if there is CC #& or 11 causing the issue in the event list for channel 1.
My first hunch was a patch got saved with a lower volume applied...
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RealBand
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Quote:
Let's eliminate the Ketron. Set RB to use a DXi synth like the VSC and see if the brass section is right. If it is OK something must be amiss with the Ketro.
Mac is there a HARD reset for the Ketron?
Cycling the power switch on the Ketron IS indeed a hard reset every time its done.
Nice feature, actually, once you have one and understand how it works.
The Ketron is a pure State Machine. It must get commands from a host or controller into its inputs before it will do anything. Those commands cannot be stored in the Ketron at all, they are "good" only as long as the current session or until an overiding command is sent.
--Mac
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RealBand
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Thanks All,
Just to clarify. As I mentioned the sequence had not been overwritten. Just to make sure I went back and pulled the original sequence MIDI file from the zip I downloaded when I made the purchase. This totally unmodified (not even renamed) file had the same problem, so definitely not a case of the file being saved with a lower volume setting.
When I say channel I am referring to the actual channel number which may, or may not, be the same as a given track number depending on the actual MIDI sequence. In this particular case it happened that Track 1 was using channel 1 for the Brass Section patch. But of course that was just coincidental.
Perhaps a different MIDI file had set the volume on channel 1 and each time we have used this particular MIDI file we had previously played the one that set the volume on channel one. That would explain it not changing after a power on reset which I had thought would fully reset the Ketron. If that is the case then it will not be fun tracking down which file is the culprit. I will try just playing the offending MIDI file as the first one after the next power cycle to see if the problem is gone.
I know that velocity changes would only impact how hard the key was "struck" but I was trying anything that might change the perceived sound level as I was trying to track this down.
Now, assuming that something had set the volume on channel 1 in the Ketron to almost nothing. How would I change the volume on channel 1 (or any other individual channel)? My thought here is that I could send the appropriate setting change at the start of every MIDI file to make sure that this is not a problem in the future. Since changing the volume setting in the sequence on channel one did not have any impact where else would I change the volume level on an individual channel?
Thanks again,
Burt
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Answering my own post I may have found the answer to what I was seeing. I was working with another purchased MIDI file that I hadn't revisited in quite some time. After working with it I remembered why I had shelved it. After that MIDI played once all the tracks were silent when playing it again! If I changed the Channel on one of the tracks that was now silent I had sound again, which is similar to what I was seeing with the MIDI that prompted this thread. I did some exploration and the new MIDI I was working with sets the expression controller on all of the instrument tracks, and the last thing it did with the expression was set it to 0! Then in each track as the last thing sent they did a reset all controllers. But it appears that Ketron does NOT reset the expression controller on a reset all controllers. At least it does not reset it to max. I tested this theory by adding a CC event at the start of each instrument track to set expression to 127 (max). This worked reliably, so probably I have another MIDI file that is setting expression to 0 on channel 1. Burt
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RealBand
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I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Quote:
Perhaps a different MIDI file had set the volume on channel 1 and each time we have used this particular MIDI file we had previously played the one that set the volume on channel one. That would explain it not changing after a power on reset which I had thought would fully reset the Ketron. If that is the case then it will not be fun tracking down which file is the culprit. I will try just playing the offending MIDI file as the first one after the next power cycle to see if the problem is gone.
Toggling the Ketron power indeed is a full reset. It should and will cancel out any commands previously sent to the device.
Try it again, and this time, if the volume is still not right, immediately check the MIDI Event List for any CC7 or CC11 entries -- and see what they are.
I'm thinking now, however, that your problem might be in the *Audio* domain, though. Make sure that the offending track is not panned hard right or hard left and that the output is not somehow turned down or off for that Audio channel...
Odds are fairly good that the problem lies swomewhere within your computer and not the Ketron, although there is a very remote chance that the Ketron might be suffereing from a hardware fault, I doubt that as it plays on the other channels.
--Mac
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Remember that settings made to a Channel in one song can be carried over to the following song unless a global reset is sent to the Synth. In the case of the Ketron this can be achieved by a switching the Sound Modual off and on. Problems are created by CC11 or CC7 fading out at the end of a previous song at not reset in the next. CC64 Sustain set to 127 can create distortion in a following song. Pitchbend setting other than zero can cause later problems.
I would suggest that you include a CC121 value zero at the start of track 1 for all your songs using the Event List. This will create a soft "Reset all Controllers" each time a song is played from the start.
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I would be surprised if a commercially made MIDI didn't have all the parameters sent at the count in of the tune.
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What gets almost everybody at one time or another -- is that they don't realize that they must rewind the sequence all the way back to the beginning of the file and then hit Play in order for the sequencer to be able to send those critical CC and other changes that must be reset after something like a fade at the end. That leaves the State Machine in its last state sent, which is Volume all the way down for that track. However, one should be able to send a correction CC and turn it back up if that is the case, but only for that one playback because if it reaches the end of the song and the fadeout area, the commands will be sent again.
*Might* be what's happening here...
--Mac
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Hadn't checked back until now.
I had rewound to start so that was not the case.
What the problem was, with the sequences in question, was the Expression level being "faded" to 0 or a very low value.
Edit [I mis-typed. CC11 IS reset on the SD4 by CC121. But some sequences appear to use CC7 (Volume) instead of CC11 (Expression) so in those cases Volume is not reset in the SD4). That said, the issue can also be addressed by starting each track with a CC11 set to 127, but using a CC121 is also a good idea.]
Add this to Pitch Bend Sensitivity CC101/100/6 that is another issue with "professionally" produced sequences, and as was mentioned above Sustain and it gets to be a bit of an annoyance.
Too bad RealBand doesn't have a 'Macro" capability so you could just hit a single command to insert all of the CC's at once.
I'm going to add these to a file to import and insert at the start of each track as needed. Hopefully that will make it quicker to update the sequences as needed.
Thanks,
Burt
Last edited by BurtB; 09/27/10 12:10 PM.
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from http://www.midi.org/techspecs/rp15.php"Reset All Controllers Channel Mode message (#121) is clearly defined. The value byte is always 0, although many implementations allow any value (don't care)."
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I use a Seq file which is set up with tracks 1 to 16 (Channels 1 to 16) showing only the CC and RPNs data required to set up each Track/Channel. This file excludes data normally controlled via the Mixer & Tracks Windows. Use File > Load Scrap to load the file to Clipboard and then Paste > Merge with existing Data.
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