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Joined: May 2008
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OP
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I want to begin this post by saying that I am aware that programming is much more complicated than the typical end-user appreciates, and that I have had nothing but positive experiences dealing with PG Music sales staff, support staff, etc. They are a great company and put out a good product and support it wel. That said, I do not understand why a program as good as BIAB still has a basic user interface that looks like a 1980s era piece of software.
The basic element of the program - the chord sheet - while functional and intuitive in many ways, is well below what I think we should get when paying top dollar for a computer program.
If the program is playing music, then the basic interface should look like a piece of music, not an abstract "hyperpad" or spreadsheet.
Meaning, something that looks like a lead sheet in the Real Book. A stave with an actual key signature, time signature, and melody. Chord symbols above the stave, etc.
And, most importantly: functional, usable elements of sheet music like first and second endings, repeat signs, codas, possibly even dynamic markings, etc. As the program exists, a typical new user or infrequent user is constantly hamstrung trying to "translate" from what is a relatively universally understood, simple system of symbols (sheet music), into "BIAB" equivalents.
An analogy would be old word processing programs, which were not "what you see is what you get," and you had to input your text in the "Word Perfect" translation, and hope that when you hit the print button, the end document looked the way you wanted. The change to WYSIWYG formats in word processors was monumental. BIAB is like a 1980's word processor.
Perhaps it would be a herculean task to change the format this way. Maybe it would make the program much larger, in terms of code, etc. Maybe it wouldn't be worth it.
But in my opinion, as the program exists right now, it is a powerful but somewhat disappointing program.
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Joined: Aug 2006
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What about the player who does not want that? I want to use the lyrics window with chord scrolling . Should they code to satisfy me? What about the guy that doesn't want, or need to see a music sheet, but uses the program to build chord based backing tracks (one of the primary uses) should he be forced to read it as a sheet music?
I understand your need, but it is not everyones need. So why not keep it as it is and slowly improve all the features as it goes.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2000
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86, you do know about the Lead Sheet Window, and Fake Sheet Mode, right?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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OP
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Matt - I am aware of it, but as far as I know, for the mac version anyway, there is no such thing as 1st/2nd endings, repeats, codas, etc.
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I guess, Rob, I'm saying that I think because it would make the program better, without sacrificing anything. No, you don't code to every individual's personal preference, but you do try to make the best product out there.
I think the most intuitive way to make a music program is to make the interface look like a piece of music. Just like the most intuitive way to make a word processor is to make the interface look like a sheet of paper.
But people please correct me if I'm wrong....as far as I know, there is no such thing as a simple, clickable "repeat" or "1st ending" item in the mac version.
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OK, good to know we are talking about the Mac version. I am not familiar with that.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Joined: Jul 2007
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I see where you are coming from 86 but notation has limits. It simply cant reflect some of the things that go on in live music accurately. I learnt the classical route and used to think that notation and playing in such a way to accurately reflect the written notes was in some way a holy grail. I now realise that modern western notation is in fact a hotch potch of compromises that is incapable of reflecting accurately AND simply, some of the necessary things we do when we play in a certain style.
For example, I once tried to notate a sax solo where the player started each note a little early for effect, if I wrote this strictly then I ended up with a mess of hemidemisemiquavers for what was essentially a solo in simple eigths. Another example, when playing a acoustic guitar solo the sustain of the notes is often as much a function of how the fingers move and how many open strings there are. If you tried to notate this exactly then you would have to note what maybe essentially easy phrases with various different rests intertwined.
Notation also fails to signify some essential things. Often a player will put a heavier accent on the first and third beats of 4/4 but this is not written. The velocity and attack of different notes is usually left to the performeer though some indications are occasionally given. Often a player will sustain a note whilst a second and even a third and fourth note are played (subconsciously). If all of these notes (ie. on a guitar) were written as played then again one would get a very cluttered score which would be unreadable and unecessaraliy pedantic. For these reasons I dont see that notation can reflect a live perfomance, especially something like a blues harmonic solo or a rock guitar riff with lots of feedback. Try playing some simple solo (with feel) into a sequencer a (which supports scoring) and take a look at the result - a labrynth of clutter and confusion.
As for refecting dynamics, in the real world a crescendo for example is not just a increase in the amplitude of a sound, but as the instrument(s) is stressed a totally different wave form casn be found, the attack can change, vibrato and much more
In the round I am saying that there is much more to this than meets the eye. Cubase has two concepts which help. They have 'display quantise' which distinguishes between two notations the 'real' notation of what is played, (which is often impossible to read) and the tweaked 'display' which is a simplification which does NOT strictly represent what you hear. It laos has expression maps which allow the selection of (e.g. different staccato samples, for the SAME notation symbol. This is important because even though the same symbol is used on the page a player will use a range of different staccato sounds for different contexts. In fact I vbelive that in a whole lifetime of playing the sax I have never actually made the same sound twice - in oscilloscope terms.
I agree weith you that the interfac e is outdated though.
Just IMO.... its complex!
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 26
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OP
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ZeroZero - thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'd never thought of any of what you wrote, so obviously a strictly notation-based system would be inadequate.
But for those things which are used in standard notation and are easily conceptualized - like first and second endings, codas, etc. - I cannot believe this program is in its 10th version and these simple devices have not been created! Can we at least make these?
Again, thanks.
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Aug 2006
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What you want in features i agree, the Mac version needs to catch up to the Win version for sure.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8
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Newbie
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 8 |
Hello,
This post is about 'odd' time signature (ie: 5/4, 5/8 etc...)
I’ve been using BiaB since years to my overall satisfaction but:
I understand that BiaB is not a score editor however:
Currently both in playing and in printing scores with such time signature (ie ‘take five’) is not quite satisfactory though it’s somehow working.
As an example 5/4 is shown as a combination of ¾ and 2/4 bars where ‘usual’ score should show up to 5 quarter notes (or more) within a single bar. This is not very handy when entering notes with a mouse.
I recently tried to enter a song in 5/8 but found it quite impossible to enter eighth’s notes and came to use 5/4 instead, and by the way the song 'sounds' OK.
So I’m wondering if there could be any plan to offer a better support for ‘odd’ time signature such as 5/4, 5/8 etc... so the score appears identical to those of 'real books' and other score publications.
Thank you
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Band-in-a-Box Wishlist
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 48
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Along the same lines, I would really like to see BIAB able to import Music XML files.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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