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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
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OP
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7 |
Hello all!
As a songwriter, I must say I that BiaB is one of my favorite tools.
I just noticed that my H:\bb folder is using 410 GB of space. Is this normal? I have accumulated quite a few sets and styles but 410 GB? Good thing I have a 1 TB drive!
I scanned the bb folder with AV and malware software - negative. I see some folders labeled as "Fakebooks" and "Playalong" things. Can I delete these safely? Will it make a difference?
BiaB 2009.5 is running great, I was just shocked to see the folder size. I'm OK with it if it should be that big.
Thanks, everyone!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
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If you have all the Real Track and Real Drums AND they are all expanded (versus compressed) in that directory that sounds about right.
I have everything in one directory and it is ~86.4G, but on my last install I no longer uncompress the RT/RD so the space is considerably smaller here.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Yes, I agree, that sounds about right. When you have the audiophile version, and the most recent update of 2010.5 with even more Real Tracks, it tops out at nearly 1.2 TB, and requires a 1.5 TB drive. As to your question about what you can delete, you could delete those folders you mentioned, and more like them, but it really will not make much of a difference. Most are BIAB songs, and these files are incredibly tiny compared to the Real Tracks. You might enjoy the program, WinDirStat. It's a free utility with cool graphics that shows you exactly how much space everything takes on your drive. You can quickly see where some effort to delete files will pay off, and where it won't. Read about it here: http://windirstat.info/ Highly recommended.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7
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OP
Newbie
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7 |
Thanks so much for the quick replies, gentlemen.
I had no idea...
.. so my next questions are, should I not have uncompressed the files? Should I or can I recompress them?
Thanks again.
MoS
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,901
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Quote:
should I not have uncompressed the files? Should I or can I recompress them?
Up to you to decide, as long as you did not delete the original .wma (compressed) BIAB has a feature called "Archive" which will automatically delete all the .wav (uncompressed) files and the program will simply use the .wms again. Then you could use "install" to regenerate all the .wav if you found it was taking longer to load. Install and Archive are option on the RealTrack and Real Drum menus.
Personnally, I found no advantage to having then uncompressed.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
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With the new 'Speed up generation' feature, I see no reason to have the uncompressed (WAV) files unless you have tons of disk space. The quality of the WAV files is the same as the compressed (WMA) files unless you have the Audiophile version of BAIB.
If you want to get rid of the WAVs, use the Archive button in the RealTracks and RealDrums settings. You may want to first make sure you have the associated WMA files in the RealDrums/RealTracks folders.
R
p.s. Where is Simpleton? I've been called that many times.
Last edited by Rachael; 10/08/10 07:41 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Rachael and Dan are correct. It used to make a noticeable difference in the time it took to generate Real Tracks if you uncompressed them. Some people reported decreasing the time by maybe a third or so. As of version 2010, this no longer is as important, since the song starts playing even while the Real Tracks for later in the song are being generated.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,722
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Quote:
As of version 2010, this no longer is as important, since the song starts playing even while the Real Tracks for later in the song are being generated.
Matt,
I never thought of it like this before . . . but from now on I'll always envision my trumpet man, who will be doing a solo between bars 37 and 52 just leaving the green room and making a dash for the stage as the song starts. But he gets there on time every time! 
Later,
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,493
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I use only MIDI styles and play them through a good MIDI tone generator so they sound about 90-95% as good as the RTs, are many times more editable (therefore capable of adding more expression) and the folder runs about 700MB. This includes all my 21 style disks, all 7 Hawesford's Styles, all 29 of my Fake Disks (plus some older editions), 2 David Bailey's Fake DIsks, 12 Jim Wedd Chord Substitution Disks, Sherry Mayren'ts Klezmer Disk and my 8 MIDI intro and ending disks. Can you imagine how many TB disks you would need if all 77 PG MIDI style disks were RTs and added to the present number? MIDI is not only efficient, but most pro musicians that I know prefer MIDI. Of course, I sell MIDI styles so read this with that in mind. But I also prefer MIDI styles for the reasons listed here http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_vs_loops.htmlRTs sound good, but IMHO I can export MIDI to a sequencer and make them much more expressive than the RTs, add song specific licks, and other musical devices. But then again, there is more than one correct way to make music, and my way is best for me, but not necessarily best for you.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 733
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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In another thread Silvertones said
"Styles do not do anything to Real Tracks. You can have a "blank" style up there and if you manually assign RTs to each instrument they will sound exactly the same."
That set me thinking and Bob Norton's comments about prefering MIDI to RTs crystalized my thoughts. I should state that I am a self taught pianist who knows very little about music and only play my keyboard with BIAB for my own amusement. From the time I started using RTs I had a feeling of disappointment and put it down to my lack of musical appreciation and ability to make the most of BIAB. Yes, RTs sound great but they were rather boring compared with MIDI styles - I have been using BIAB for over ten years. I had got used to sorting through dozens of MIDI styles and coming up with lots of great options that fitted the particular song I was playing and saving. In comparison the "all RT" styles tend to lack variety and lots seem to rely on different solos to sound different from each other. Even if I substituted different RT tracks in place of the original MIDI ones they weren't very exciting, although the sound quality was better.
In comparison when there were just RDs, before RTs came along, I always found satisfaction in substituting an RD for MIDI drums.
Perhaps RTs don't have much to offer for me and my kind of playing and don't warrent all the hard drive space issues and generation time that they bring with them
Tony Wright
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610
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The Real Bass and Real Drums are what they are, real. When I play with midi bass and midi drums, it's like playing with a metronome (a little exaggerated). For the jazz players, especially pianists, the real tracks are great. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Remember that RTs are less then 2 years old at this point. With the things PG has come up with I'm sure they have something up their sleeve for the future and their sleeve is quite long.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,493
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Quote:
The Real Bass and Real Drums are what they are, real. When I play with midi bass and midi drums, it's like playing with a metronome (a little exaggerated). For the jazz players, especially pianists, the real tracks are great. Later, Ray
That depends on the style. If the style is quantized, or done with the old fashioned drum grid, it will sound like a metronome. If the style is entered by playing live, it will sound as live as the player, even if the player is using MIDI instruments to input the style.
If the MIDI style sounds stiff or robotic, it's the fault of the style writer, not MIDI.
All of my styles since the introduction of the "live drums" feature have been done by playing the drums and are not quantized. All the other parts in all of my styles, right back to version 4 of BiaB have been put in via live entry. With one exception: Techno and other dance styles that are supposed to be quantized.
I play the parts live into a sequencer so they have the proper groove (or "feel") and then import snippets into the BiaB StyleMaker and assign the proper masks for that snippet. The result is MIDI instruments with a live feel because they were played live.
It's not MIDIs fault. Any recording done by live musicians with any electronic instrument, whether it is a drum set or synthesizer was done with MIDI. MIDI is only quantized and robotic if it is entered that way or played that way.
Now to make things perfectly clear, PG Music has done some wonderful things with the RTs. I am simply amazed at what they can do with audio loops. But they still are loops and for all practical purposes, un-editable. I am very glad that PG gives us the choice so that the RT people can be happy and the MIDI people can also be happy.
Like most professional musicians that I know, I'm a MIDI guy and my opinions come from that point of view. I stress that there is more than one way to make music, and whether you agree with me or not doesn't make you wrong or right, just different, and different is OK as long as the music comes out.
The RTs have great tone. But what is great tone? Take guitar. Who has the best guitar tone? Hendrix? Slash? Page? Kenny Burrell? Les Paul? Jeff Beck? Wes Montgomery? Duane Eddy? Dick Dale? Joe Satriani? Emily Remler? Randy Bachman? Carlos Montoya? Eddie Van Halen? Eric Gale? Nokie Edwards? Billy Gibbons? Chet Atkins? Carlos Santana? Joe Pass? John Scofield? Eric Clapton? Brad Paisley? Kirk Hammett? Axl Rose? ________? (add whoever you want). And on which guitar/amp/FX setting or what point in their career?
With so many variables, your favorite tone might only be considered the best tone by 1% of the audience. How many people like Page better than Hendrix or Clapton or any of the others? Ask ten people and you will get at least 9 responses. So as far as I'm concerned, as long as your tone is "in the ball park" for the genre of music you are playing, it's going to please the same percentage of the audience as any other tone that is also in the ball park. Tone is more important to the musician than the audience.
When it comes down to it, it's more about expression. After all, how many famous and well loved singers do not have a universally acclaimed perfect voice? Rod Stewart, Stevie Nicks, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, Dr. John, and scores of other huge stars have voices that are not considered great voices. But they are great stars because their expressiveness.
So how does the MIDI track give my music more expressive potential than it would with RTs?
By allowing me to do quite a few things that I wouldn't be able to do with RTs, and for the ones that can be done, I'd need a recording studio with similar FX/EQ and other tools, similar microphones, similar instruments, and players who could mimic the style of the player on the RT.
Here are just a few:
- Extend the intro or ending or create a new one for that particular song (or copy and paste one from one of my intro/ending disks [self-serving plug])
- Insert "song specific" licks, motifs, or figures. So many songs need them, from "Beethoven's 5th" to "Don't Get Around Much Anymore" to "So What" to "Don't Be Cruel" to "Day Tripper" to "Sunshine Of Your Love" to so many songs right up to the present day - they simply wouldn't be the same song without the musical signature figures - it's an important part of music.
- Change instruments (that piano part might sound better on a Clav for the song I'm working on)
- Change individual drum sounds (that ride cymbal would sound better on a cowbell for the song I'm working on)
- Crescendo (A directive to a performer to smoothly increase the volume of a particular phrase or passage)
- Diminuendo (A directive to a performer to smoothly decrease the volume of the specific passage of a composition)
- Accelerando (Gradually accelerating or getting faster)
- Ritardando (Gradually getting slower)
- Fermata (notation marking directing the performer or ensemble to sustain the note of a composition affecting all parts and lasting as long as the artistic interpretation of the conductor or performer allows)
- Manipulate drum rolls, perhaps this roll on bar 8 is too busy, and the roll on bar 32 would be better there
- Fix awkward notes - they may be musically correct, but they might sound better an octave lower in this particular context
- and so on and so on.....
Again, there is nothing wrong with RTs, but in my opinion, I can make the music sound better by using MIDI styles and spending a bit of time improving them. And after all, I got into music to play music, and improving them is playing with them. If I wanted to only play recordings, my iPod does that nicely.
Plus it fits in a 700MB and backs up on a flash drive. I don't need a 2TB hard drive to install the program and another 2TB hard drive to make a back up.
It's my way of doing things, and of course, there is more than one way to do it, and YMMV.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
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