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Once again, MIDI only sounds as good as the synth you are using. I'll add: - (1) Tone matters more to the musician and less to the audience member. After all, what you think is perfect tone, is your opinion. Take vocalists, does Doctor John have a good voice? John Lennon? Rod Stewart? Stevie Nicks? Bob Dylan? Most people say "no" but they sell a lot of records. How about guitar? Ask 100 guitarists what perfect tone is, and you will get at least 90 answers. Is it Hendrix? Slash? Walsh? Page? Van Halen? Joe Pass? Eric Gale? Jeff Beck? Clapton? Kenny Burrell? Emily Remler? Nancy Wilson? ______? And on which guitar or which stage of their career?
- (2) Expressiveness trumps tone as far as the audience is concerned. That's why people like Doctor John and Stevie Nicks sell so many records
- (3) It is possible to get more creative AND more expressive with MIDI tracks with the available continuous controllers (http://www.nortonmusic.com/midi_cc.html), ability to subtly shift note placement, ability to alter dynamics, add notes, change notes, and so on
- (4) So I must conclude that MIDI tracks, while with a good synth are only slightly inferior in tone to real tracks, can be made to sound more expressive and more musical. The musician may notice the difference in tone, the audience will relate to the difference in expression and favor a well made MIDI track -- this is why most of the professional musicians I know prefer MIDI over recorded loops
It really bugs me when people sell MIDI short. MIDI sounds bad only when people don't take the time to learn how to use it and/or if they are using a cheesy synthesizer. Much of what you hear on contemporary recordings, including bass, drums, piano, B-3, etc., are played by studio musicians on MIDI instruments. Remember, MIDI has no sound, it tells the synthesizer what the original player is doing with his/her fingers, breath, feet or whatever else the player uses to play an instrument. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Again, never say never but...that would mean PG dropping the General Midi Standard.....
That in turn would cause no end of grief for the average user who just wants to put in some chords and hit
As I mentioned earlier the GM standard also only has a few midi controllers available and they are no where near enough to do what we're talking about here. Bob
Bob, I will respectfully disagree about a couple of your points.
PG would not have to drop the GM standard to improve its midi capabilities. As I have said many times all it would have to do is to increase its midi resolution and add more ports, much like in RB.
Second GM has the same midi controller capabilities as any other synth IF the MFG decides to utilize them all. Some do and some don’t. That’s the same for any synth, soft,hard, GM or not.
The GM standard is a good thing for many people, however that segment of the total PC music creating community apparently is in the minority, otherwise there would be a ton of MFG’s offering it. Many DAW’s and include a basic GM set, as do some hardware synths.
There are a couple of inherent problems with uploading a midi GM file. Let’s say you have a perfect sounding trumpet in your GM set and you have set its pitch bend range to +/- one half semitone. This adds life to your sound. You up load that file and someone else downloads it and plays it on their GM set. It can sound terrible because the trumpet sound is not the same and their pitch bend range is set at the normal +/- 2 semitones. That is why most GM midi files are note on and note off only. Controllers can make a mess of everything.
The main problem in getting the ideal GM sound set is the cost. A good brass section like Garritans J&BB cost $150 USD. Add a good string section, Garritans GPO4 is another $150. That’s a lot of money for a few sounds. Plus these two examples are at the lower price range. A very good sax Mr Sax T costs around $150 just for a tenor sax. Plus it needs Kontakt to run it, another $400. Good sounds cost a lot of money. The SD2 apparently the best overall deal for $400.
One last point is when was the last time anyone posted a midi file? It’s a thing of the past. We create midi files then convert them to wavs and/or MP3’s and upload the MP3. That way what you hear is what the composer hears.
Just my thoughts - MarioD
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
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I'm finding that a good MIDI file playing a high quality sound source can be far more effective than a 'Real Track' that isn't quite what I wanted.
I'm working on a song that uses a repeated Bass riff for almost the entire song. I penciled in 4 bars in my MIDI editor and copied those 4 bars to the rest of the song. I output the track to Trillogy and it sounds incredible, much better than the RT's I tried for bass.
Sometimes the RT's can be perfect for the song - Sometimes you have to change the song a little to better fit the RT's - and sometimes the RT's don't work at all.
I am impressed with RB & RT's as VERY useful tools for working out arrangements and trying out ideas I might not have thought of.
The most useful change to me would be "Higher resolution MIDI" to improve "feel".
I think GM is the best MIDI standard for BIAB. I don't want BIAB/RB to try to be an all-in-one music workstation. The cost would have to go up and the bugs would multiply.
I can put MIDI into my Sequencer - I can edit it to my heart's content - I can send it to a soft synth with "Round Robin" playback and the sound I want.
I don't doubt that Peter Gannon & team will come up with exponential improvements to BIAB/RB/RT's - but I do hope that they don't leave out MIDI improvements. I would love to see MIDI versions of RT's - Maybe with an option to adjust Pitch Bend etc. to the synth being used.
Last edited by boydbob; 11/29/10 02:45 PM.
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Although I'm a huge fan of RealTracks, I'd also like to see the MIDI equivalent of RealTracks. That is, instead of pulling up complete styles, I'd like to be able to select MIDI tracks the same as RealTracks.
I'd think that most of the piano styles in the "Piano Pop" (set 70) and "LitePop" (set 84) would work well as MIDI. P_JONI seems to be about all I've been able to find on the MIDI styles. Similarly, many of the RealTrack bass styles should also work as MIDI.
I think RealTracks have shown that being able to create an arrangement via "mix and match" is a viable approach. While it's possible to create new styles which are a mix of existing styles, there's a real convenience of being able to select a single track via the RealTracks browser.
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Quote:
<...>There are a couple of inherent problems with uploading a midi GM file. Let’s say you have a perfect sounding trumpet in your GM set and you have set its pitch bend range to +/- one half semitone. This adds life to your sound. You up load that file and someone else downloads it and plays it on their GM set. It can sound terrible because the trumpet sound is not the same and their pitch bend range is set at the normal +/- 2 semitones. That is why most GM midi files are note on and note off only. Controllers can make a mess of everything.<...> MarioD
The General MIDI specification is for pitch bend to be set at +/- 2 semitones. Any deviation from that is not GenMIDI.
There are continuous controllers that can be used to change the Pitch Bend range. In order, set cc100=0 cc101=0 cc6=n (where n=the number of semitones the pitch can vary). So if I want a full octave of pitch bend for say a bass slide at the beginning of the song in successive clock ticks I set cc100=0 cc101=0 cc6=12. At the end of the song I'll repeat the procedure and change cc6=2 to reset my synth to the GM standard.
And once again, for those new to MIDI, neither GM or any other MIDI has any sound. General MIDI simply specifies which patch (or program) number equates to which instrument. So for example, patch 33 will play Acoustic Bass on all GenMIDI synthesizers. It doesn't specify whether it should sound like an Ac.Bass with nylon strings, steel strings, with good fidelity or bad sounding. That's up to the synth manufacturer. The GM spec does say that the pitch bend should be set to 2 semitones but as noted, gives you the opportunity to change it.
Most if not all computer sound cards have lame MIDI synths. The sound cart itself probably costs from $10 to a couple of hundred for top of the line (most computers come with bottom-of-the-line sound cards installed). I've seen Dell cards for as little as $16. And the sound card does two functions, MIDI synth and sound wave (audio) reproduction. Since most computer users are not musicians and the MIDI sounds are used predominantly for games, the sound card company puts most of their engineering dollars in the audio reproduction aspect of the sound card so that YouTube, WAV, and other audio formats sound right. After all, that is what most computer users want. What kind of a MIDI synth do you think you are going to get for $16 even if it wasn't sharing duty with raw audio?
I have 3 hardware synths with General MIDI sound banks on them, and I can exchange files between all 3 plus the semi-lame VSC software synth and they will all play the same song, with the same expression, and the same pitch bend. The individual instrument sounds on all 4 are different.
With hardware synths and MIDI, I can expand my sounds. My SD90 has over a thousand different voices in it. Just for guitars I have strats, teles, 335s and many others, some with front or back pickup choices. If I don't like the guitar sound on a song, I can change it. Or even change the synth, the i3 and sc55 have some great guitar sounds. Even my lowly pre-GM MT32 has a couple of good ones.
Another good thing about hardware MIDI synths, is I don't need a huge hard drive to carry along my RealTracks. There are only two kinds of computer users. Ones who have had a hard drive failure, and ones who haven't had a hard drive failure yet!
I can keep expanding my voices without using up computer hard drive space.
I can mix the voices from a dozen different synths, taking the best voice of each for the particular song I'm working on, and there is no latency to speak of (different software synths have different latency specs so it's hard to blend them), and there is no loading of the computers CPU.
And when I get a new computer, simply plug the USB port to my synth array to the new computer, and I'm good to go.
And I can manipulate the continuous controllers to get more expression out of them than I can with audio loops.
There is one thing I'd like to see PG Music do in the MIDI department though. Change the MIDI resolution from 120ppq to at least 240ppq. A clickable resolution of 240, 480 or 960 wouldn't be bad either.
As you can tell, I'm a big MIDI fan. IMHO with a decent MIDI sound module, you can make your music MUCH more expressive, MUCH more varied, and MUCH better than you can with audio loops. Expressiveness trumps tone any day of the week.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I knew he's say that stuff at the end. And that he knew what he was talking about as far as midi is concerned.
However, one day, technology, storage space and processing will trump midi, for which development has ground to the proverbial halt. What the keyboard manufacturers will have then is a captive audience for new keyboards, because nothing will be compatible. I suppose (sigh), that's ok.
I don't just yet see the day my keyboard will trigger Realtracks, however through experimentation I have run the output through a voicelive and got some interesting results with harmonies. Don't hold your proverbial breath.
As said earlier.
If some enterprising chap took a particular sound module and optimized band in a box files so that it used midi and that module there is probably a good market for that implementation. Sacrifices have to be made though, because the average user is not going to go out and buy 4 external synths. And many want to 'play live'.
Thus the potential after'markets'.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
Although I'm a huge fan of RealTracks, I'd also like to see the MIDI equivalent of RealTracks. That is, instead of pulling up complete styles, I'd like to be able to select MIDI tracks the same as RealTracks.
This is already available for the RT's that have Real Charts implemented. They had to transcribe the RT note for note into midi in order to get the notation to display. The only thing is the velocities have been set to zero so you have to manually change that. There is a little trick to get the RT midi file to display and I don't remember what it is but someone may jump in who knows about that. If nobody does, start a new thread asking that question because I know for sure it's doable.
Afaik they don't use midi controllers for the RT's, they want the best acoustic sound they can get. Also for background info, they've been using live drummers to lay down the midi drums for years but there's some old legacy styles that still use sequenced drums. I think one of those cryptic symbols that are in the style name tells you if it uses a live midi drummer or not.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hi Rachael,
don't know if BIAB has limitations,, but my PA800 keyboard uses midi styles, and the bass lines can sound brilliant.
Bit off topic, but currently I'm trying to find a way of mixing PA800 style tracks with BIAB style tracks in Real Band ie backing track recorded in keyboard, saved as midifile, then replace the odd track with a Real Track from BIAB.
best wishes
rikki
BIAB 2025
Korg PA5X
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Hi, that's a great idea being able to select midi tracks the same way as the Real tracks. What would also be great would be if the Real Tracks had variations like some of the Drum Real Tracks ie Nashville , where you can choose to use the sticks vari, or the hihat etc Bit more control over what gets generated mightn'd go astray? Quote:
Although I'm a huge fan of RealTracks, I'd also like to see the MIDI equivalent of RealTracks. That is, instead of pulling up complete styles, I'd like to be able to select MIDI tracks the same as RealTracks
Last edited by rikkisbears; 11/30/10 09:56 PM.
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However, I suspect you are complaining about the style of base playing used in the bass RealTracks - in other words the lines the bass player laid down. Here I might agree that the input chosen by the programmers seems to be quite limited. But is suppose it really is a question of individual preferences about how the bass player should play the lines.
I also have problems with the bass lines. I often wonder if they have been correctly programmed, because I cannot determine where '1' is by listening to the first note in the bar. In addition, there are too many grace notes and fills. I much prefer a straight four-in-the-bar walking bass but it is almost impossible to get this at slow tempos. I just like a more obvious bass player, which is what I find most real bass players do these days.
I will concede that there have been changes over the history of jazz playing and it took a long time for them to create quarter-note walking bass lines with a real swing feel. For a couple of decades after the advent of bebop, bass playing went off the rails and there are still some bass players who do not often start a bar with the root note of the chord.
Many frontline players, like me, listen to the bass player to 'hear' the chords and that is why I need that chord root note at the start of a bar. This is probably why I prefer Jodi Proznick to Neil Swainson. But I do wonder about that programming. Sometimes it seems to me that the lines slip a whole beat and that is why the first note is not obvious. Or perhaps the lines played for the recordings of RealTracks do not handle more complex chords. I really don't know what is the problem but sometimes I have to revert to old midi styles because I just can't tell where I am in a chord progression.
Apologies for digging up an old post but I couldn't agree more with Graham on this subject.
I find that for non complex chord patterns (like blues)the bass patterns are reasonably acceptable, but when I enter the chords for a song with more complex chord structures (eg Beautiful Love, Just Friends, Stella etc) I find the bass playing in RT's jumping all over the place . The new simple and very styles in the latest build have helped somewhat, but in most cases I still find myself going back to midi for the bass part as RT's are just too busy and unpredictable. Oliver Gannon's guitar comping and the drum parts are very tasteful, but Neil Swainson is definitely overplaying IMO. I realise some like this style so maybe a new jazz bass choice could be given...like very, very, very simple :-)
Until PG come up with a solution, I reluctantly will mainly use midi bass..
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Here's how I get beyond that .. I take the project to RB, and generate about 6 tracks of bass to pick through. You may be pleasantly surprised to find you have a good variety (a lot of the time), but all played on the same bass and recorded the same way so they fit together well. Then I cut/paste a bass track together using pieces I like. Either that or I just play what I want on bass ... depends on how lazy I'm feeling.  I can't expect the realtracks to play exactly what I want.. and I can't talk to the bass player .. but I CAN have him play it a few different times and comp a track I like. Use whatever tool gets the job done. just an idea
Last edited by rharv; 01/03/11 03:45 PM.
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I take a close look at the RT bass tracks, and i take a close look at the midi ones that i can generate. Try a few different bass samples, heck play the bass if needed.
Sometimes the RT bass works, sometimes the midi, sometimes the old jazz bass comes out and i muddle thru one my self.
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Check out the Sonivox Acoustic Bass. Only $20 The demo track they have there sure sounds good. And you can download the app for free, and use it for three days, before having to pay the $20, to see how you like it. Not sure how it would be used with BIAB, since BIAB uses GM. However, if you create an arrangement with BIAB, and save to a MIDI file (saving any RT or RD you want as .wav files), then import into a sequencer program, in that you can assign any MIDI instrument you want, to any track. Quote:
Quote:
I plan to continue buying the upgrades but would like to see the midi playing catch up with the feel of RTs.
I never like to say never but, it's never gonna happen because of the General Midi standard. GM does not allow for all the nuanced control necessary to emulate a real player. This is why Garritan, the now defunct Gigasampler and a bunch of other high end samplers don't use GM. They've developed their own proprietary way of controlling midi in order to try to get where you want to go. In order to make Biab accessible to the masses PG is using General Midi. You can see by reading the forums, a lot of folks barely understand basic midi as it is. Throw Garritan's very technical midi control methodology at them and they will just throw their hands up and move on to something else. That tech is also very expensive. I was looking at a horn library last year that has unbelievable control over every aspect of playing a horn. Dozens of separate attacks in order to capture all the little ways a player blows into their mouthpiece. This is in addition to the sounds themselves. Think about how the sound changes on a sax just by how the player blows it, lips it, sings into it, hums into it, all kinds of stuff to get certain very famous sax sounds. That horn software with a DVD explaining how to control it cost $2,700. No General Midi there. The demo's were amazing though. I've heard some excellent acoustic bass programs too but very expensive. I think one I saw at NAMM a couple years ago was around a thousand bucks or so. Just for bass. Again, special controllers, special software and you need a degree in computer science to use it. This is far beyond spending a few hundred bucks on Biab for the masses.
Bob
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Some of the above suggestions are okay if you have plenty of time to create note perfect backings for a public performance. But if you have several hundred jazz tunes, any one of which you may wish to practice, I expect the bass player to 'be there' with the right lines when I push the Play button.
I have just spent too many hours going through some of the tunes I am currently playing with a real, real band and therefore need to practice at home. I have assigned the 'Simple' and 'Very Simple' bass lines to the jazz styles previously selected. The result is somewhat better sounding rhythm sections which are more helpful for practicing jazz. They also swing more.
Referring back to mal12345's post, I agree. The simplification and correction of the bass lines, even for 'Very Simple', does not go quite far enough. I think this is a programming issue rather than the way Neil Swainson would play naturally.
I analysed the base lines on a slowish tempo (088) "I'm Gettin' Sentimental Over You" (Hey, I'm a trombone player!) where I had previously selected the RealStyle 'Jazz Bal w Pno Fred Guit (85 RS)'. I substituted the new Neil Swainson 'Very Simple' bass. I found that the first note in a bar was much more often the root note of the chord. In 32 bars there were only 3 bars where the first note was the third, 2 bars where it was the fifth and 1 bar where it was a fourth (ouch). Most of the notes were quarter notes but there were 6 doubled notes (which could be eliminated) and two instances of triplets over a quarter note on the downbeat (these also could be eliminated, although Neil does use these in his playing quite a lot).
Looking at the lines, they jump around far too much. As I understand walking bass lines, you try to move through a bar so that you end up moving to the next root note (or whatever) with a small step (a tone or less) up or down. I also observe there is a tendency for bass players to ascend walking for two bars and then descend for two bars. Therefore over four bars of Dominant patterns D7 - G7 - C7 - F7, the bass might play quarter notes (ascending) D, E, F#, A, (down a tone but continue ascending) G, A, B, D, (descending) C, Bb, A, G, F, Eb, D, C. Unfortunately when you come to analysing the BB bass lines there is no small step progression to the next chord. Too often there are jumps at the end of each bar of more than an octave. The connections between bars are just not smooth and it spoils the walking effect. I suggest it is the way that RealTracks stitches the whole thing together, rather than the way that Neil Swainson would have played the lines. I took the trouble to listen to his lines on my own recordings of him playing with George Shearing and on some internet videos, and his lines are extremely logical and swinging. I would say that BB RealTracks misrepresents his playing. I would think that the jazz bass lines in RealStyles need a lot more programing by someone who knows how to walk through the changes - Like Neil does in real life.
I am only talking about jazz bass lines.
It is only the bass lines of which I am ultra critical. Again like mal12345 says, the piano and guitar comping is excellent. The drumming perhaps needs more styles within the jazz idiom (more 'hot' swing drumming). Plus overall a larger range of tempos is required. From 60 up to 360 maybe.
Oh Yes, and the bass printout did contain one bar of those three-note chords (a triad) that some people have been complaining about, instead of a single bass note.
And to get back on topic, the answer to the original question is 'not very!"
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Greetings, Well, it is possible to kill 2 birds with one stone (so to speak) Just use Celemony Melodyne! Take your bass real track audio track, put it into melodyne, move the notes wherever you want in pitch or time. It works so well, I now use it on almost all my Real tracks. In this way you can get midi like custom note input, but Real tracks sound.....It truly can't be beat!!! Give it a try, Ed Postscript>Here is a YouTube link to a demo of this technique> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe0nxkE28_4&feature=relatedAnd yes, for all those "haters" out there, this does make it super easy for anyone to change vocals, and any other instruments....but so did drum machines, Band in a Box, and Vocal Harmony boxes............
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Well put Graham, and on second thoughts, I agree it does seem to be a programming issue, not any fault of Neil Swainson. Like you I have hundreds of standards, and it would be impractical to change all the bass lines with Celemony Melodyne.
I guess we can only hope that this will be resolved...or at least improved in future BB updates. In the meantime, I will unhappily use my SC88 midi bass. Despite the poor sound, at least the bass lines make some sense...
Mal
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I've heard bass sounds that you couldn't tell from the real ting comming out of some of the better keyboards.
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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OP
Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
I just re-visited a RT set I got long time ago, RealTrack #7. The bass player, Jodi Proznick, is much more laid-back than Neil Swainson. I love her Paul 140 (I think she is imitating Paul Chambers). The tempo stretches nicely from 100-200. Below that, the double-time does not seem to do a good job. I've hired her for this weekend. Sorry Neil. R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Neil is hanging around Toronto, but we are all getting whacked with another snow storm. One of his good friends hauls his upright bass into the atrium at the Regional Cancer centre. I miss hearing him but I went there every day for 3 months and never want to see the place again. They have a ship's bell you ring when you 'graduate'. I rang it and can't do it again.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,607 |
All this talk about which Real Bass is better than another really depends on your style of music. Most of the bassists I like to work with around the D.C. area play more like Neil. If you're into swing then of course you would like Jodi more. It seems to me that the more modern a player you are then you would prefer a more modern bassist. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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