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Just wondering about something....my wife and I played at a restaurant last night - it's divided into 2 sections - one is the bar area with a few tables. and the other a bigger dining room...there was a corporate party in there - about 3 feet from our setup... of about 50-60 poeple - loud & obnoxious the whole 3 hours we played...made it very difficult to hear what we were playing... and then they totally stiffed us on a tip... am I right to be extremely pissed off here?? BTW...we got nice tips/comments from the bar area crowd, as usual....
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I don't know. I've never played for tips myself. As far as playing for loud obnoxious people, I've played 99% of my gigs in bars. Its expected.
As far as being pi$$ed, I've found that the emotion excerted in such an endevour doesn't do anything except increase the amount of acid reflux I get.
Keith
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I play restaurants that have separate bar areas...and even then... it's a challenge! Thanks for small favors, I don't do much of that anymore...but Bless you two and have a very Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year. 
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I also do this sort of thing all the time. From your description you were not playing to the dining room, you were playing to the bar and typically management wants you to keep it down so you're not too loud in the dining room. Unless you were actually hired by the corporation for their party, you have no expectation of anything from them. In fact, they may have been upset because you were interfering with their function.
The regular Friday evening 7-10pm gig I have at a place that appears to be the same set up ie two rooms split by a partial glass divider, does not use any bands during the holidays because of all the private parties. If any of those want entertainment they will hire it themselves but the restaurant doesn't start the music in the bar until 10pm and unfortunately it's the usual loud thumping disco.
Bob
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the topic of tips is a tough one because there are many conflicting points of view. Once you subject yourself to the ignominy of allowing others to value your performance in terms of tips, you pretty much have no choice but to take what you get. You can't control whether people tip, but you can control whether it makes you angry
To paraphrase what Keith wisely said, if you personalize the tipping it can really mess with your attitude if not your health
I made extra money for a while by delivering pizza for my brother in law who manages a locally successful Papa Johns store. For a while it really bugged me when people didn't tip. Then I set up a spread sheet to log my hours, hourly pay, mileage, tips etc and to my surprise, on average my pay remained fairly constant. The bad tip days were always balanced by other days when, for some reason, people tipped more than usual. This knowledge helped me to put the moment into perspective
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No tips . . . It all comes with the territory, including loud and obnoxious people. I've learned over the years that at times like this, and thank God it dosen't happen very often, I just play the gig for myself.
Bottomline, I can put up with the no tips (I never use a tip jar) and the loud patrons but I definetly do my best not let them get to me. Because if they do, then they win and I hate that.
Case in point I played a similar corporate gig myself last night. The crowd was into dinner and chatting so I played a very easy soft background gig for 3 hours. Sure I almost went to sleep a time or two but it was just what they wanted.
Later,
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Citaat:
The crowd was into dinner and chatting so I played a very easy soft background gig for 3 hours. Sure I almost went to sleep a time or two but it was just what they wanted.
That's a pro.
You are not hired to be the star of the party. You are hired to please the croud. It is their party, not yours.
Of-course it is not forbidden to have fun on your job 
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While I don't play professionally I do play a lot of gigs. Always with a band, never solo. E.G I recently bought a new trombone. In the first 16 days that I had it I played 23 gigs and rehearsals - most were gigs. While that was a particularly busy period it does give an indication of how much playing I sometimes do.
Now, I don't say that to skite, but simply to add some weight to my opinion:
As entertainers, our performances are not about us. They are about the people being entertained. If we are "prima donna's" then we are doomed to be constantly dissappointed; the "look at me, look at me" attitude will always leave you wanting more and never getting enough attention.
On the other hand, if we are doing our best to provide the kind of entertainment our audience is looking for then we are much more likely to receive accolades (or tips) because the audience is that much more likely to get what they want.
If you have managed to engage your audience the feedback is amazing and performances can reach amazing heights. If you haven't then you often end up playing for your own entertainment and it can be quite flat and dispiriting.
In the same line of reasoning: I play in the band at my church. Our purpose there is to lead others in songs of praise and worship. If anyone is there for ego, meaning they want people to take notice of them then I don't want them on stage with me. Our purpose is to bring glory to God, not to ourselves, nor is it to entertain though that may happen as a side effect. In church I do NOT want people looking at me. If the congregation has their eyes shut, their mouths open singing and their hands in the air then I am well satisfied.
To misquote Shakespeare a little, "the play's the thing", or in our case, the music is the thing. It can never be about us... At least not and still have real value.
<Edit> the above relates to performance as performance, not necessarily as art. When you can combine the two it's great, but this is not always possible in a performance situation. Then it is usually about business...
Last edited by Lawrie; 12/18/10 08:13 PM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Quote:
I can put up with the no tips (I never use a tip jar)
Put out the tip jar, man. Everybody in LA does it. When they see the tip jar, a request comes with cash. That place I mentioned is down at the beach where you have to pay six bucks for parking. We never get less than $25 or so which is enough to cover the parking for all of us but many times we get $50-60. This is still a paid gig though we're not playing just for tips. We always use the tip jar in public but not for a private function. Private functions are 50/50 whether we get a tip so if it's a $500 gig we might get a C note with the check. Or not.
Bob
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I was at a big market in Toronto yesterday. A guy in tattered clothes and toting a beat up guitar was sitting in an entrance with his case opened. A pretty good country western sound and covers, if you like that thing. Waiting for the wife. $30 bucks in 15 minutes. He kept hiding his 'take'. Every song, leaving pennies and dimes. Someone threw down $20 and said merry christmas. He stuffed it in his shirt and I noticed a bunch of bills were filling his pocket.
That being said some clean cut kids were playing a cello and flute thing at the other end of the south building and they had a tip jar with almost nothing in it. Lots of people watching. But they were not where you could stroll buy, reach in your pocket and drop change into the case, you had to walk up right in front of them and do it at chest height. I think the guy in the door where you had to go within a foot or so of his case was the difference.
I only once got a tip over 5$. A woman came up after and said I played her favorite tune. Gave me $100.
Picture this one. My marching band played in Baltimore. A guy heard in the distance the Marine Hymn. Came up and requested it. We were warming up and had played it once but he told the director he was a Marine. We did it. He peeled off 10 $100 bills and gave them to the director. Saluted during the playing, tears running down his cheeks. Told us almost no one ever played that anymore, and certainly not the bands you hear in parades. We saw him the next day, and we did it again. He tried to donate and got hugs instead. From 60 year old guys. We were happy me made him happy, would have done it for nothing and bought him a beer.
I have sat on a corner, dinged up baritone horn, case open, older clothes, and made $50 bucks an hour at rush hour in Toronto. $300 for the day. Sit on an old pillow. Play the same 4 pieces over and over. I can't sit on the ground anymore. And I don't really need to do that, it was a bet and a social experiment. I got $100 on the bet I could make $200 for the day. Gave $400 to the Children's Hospital, and had the receipt made out in the name of my reno-contractor, who pays too much tax and is somehow always broke. Good worker, poor businessman.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
I was at a big market in Toronto yesterday. A guy in tattered clothes and toting a beat up guitar was sitting in an entrance with his case opened. A pretty good country western sound and covers, if you like that thing. Waiting for the wife. $30 bucks in 15 minutes. He kept hiding his 'take'. Every song, leaving pennies and dimes. Someone threw down $20 and said merry christmas. He stuffed it in his shirt and I noticed a bunch of bills were filling his pocket.
That being said some clean cut kids were playing a cello and flute thing at the other end of the south building and they had a tip jar with almost nothing in it. Lots of people watching. But they were not where you could stroll buy, reach in your pocket and drop change into the case, you had to walk up right in front of them and do it at chest height. I think the guy in the door where you had to go within a foot or so of his case was the difference.
I have sat on a corner, dinged up baritone horn, case open, older clothes, and made $50 bucks an hour at rush hour in Toronto. $300 for the day. Sit on an old pillow. Play the same 4 pieces over and over. I can't sit on the ground anymore. And I don't really need to do that, it was a bet and a social experiment. I got $100 on the bet I could make $200 for the day. Gave $400 to the Children's Hospital, and had the receipt made out in the name of my reno-contractor, who pays too much tax and is somehow always broke. Good worker, poor businessman.
Marketing my friend, good marketing.
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To answer your question simply. Don't be angry. Those folks were there because they work together and they probably needed to let off some steam on a social level. Don't blame them.
There will be times when people go out just to socialize and then there are times when people actually listen to the music.
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I had a long time gig at a syndicate operated cabaret called "The Misty Ming" (tree). Just me singing the "American Song Book" in this very quiet, dark lounge, with a small u-shaped bar in the back corner...and a baby grand along one long wall *40 feet long with about 30 intimate, round tables surrounding. Dark and still, until the music started. A beautify little musical abode where one came to listen to jazz, talk quietly or just listen to "sounds". I had a Big Brandy Sniffer at the edge of the piano. This was in the 1959 to 1962 years, happy moments before beginning the "4-wives-thing-trial-series" over the next 40 years. Tips were good and "attendees" mannerful and appreciative of the smooth love songs and up tempos...dreamy guitar player, (Ha,ha..what can I say at a much later day, 77years later. One night, "Cleopatra" came in with a girlfriend and listened for a couple of sets, as I sat there playing, singing and sipping my ever-present Galliano-with-a-shot-of-Johnny-Walker mixed in a icy glass tumbler. Ahh, I thought I was in heaven, especially when gorgeous "Cleopatra" invited me over for a nightcap. Nicer than a "C-Note Tip", for sure. Well, that's not quite true because when I entered her apartment we were surprised by the lound banging on the front vestibule door. She said, "Oh my God...that must be my boyfriend...I thought he was still in the slammer down in Stateville Prison"!! Of course I flew down the back outside stairway and leaped into my 56 Austin Healy. A few miles down the road, I was forced over by a big, black Caddy. The guy leaned his head into the roadster, close to mine and whispered, "So I know who you are fella ...and where you work...you know "the rest", don't you buddy??!! ....So went life in the big windy city of Chicago... in much simpler days of yore! If Union Patriarch Ceasar Patrillo (Big ol'Local 5 Federation of Musicians), could see how the music biz is today...from what he left behind... He'd be playin' mournful tunes on his Stradivarius whilst spinning in his grave!! 
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Geez Daddy, same life diff place lol.
I once had a woman in a hotel bar I was playing (a Fancy Holiday Inn when they were truly fancy about '70, who started buying me fruit drinks. After the 4th there were 2 pianos. I had to stop playing, turns out she was feeding me double zombies. The deal with that place was (Thunder Bay) it took 6 hours drive to get there. Got off work Friday at 2, drove back Sunday at Supper. Play 2 nights, free meals for the 4 of us, free rooms, and tips. I did it once a month in the winter time for 2 years. At -45 the whirlpool, swimming pool and sauna made it seem like Florida.
The women trying to pick me up meant the wife put the kids to sleep and checked on me or sat there. She never drank much, and I got freebies.
I made $100 on an average weekend, enough to pay the gas.
I too went home from a bar with a dream woman. I get in the door and there's a pair of size 14 slippers. I ask who's the are she says 'ex boyfriend'. I ask 'how ex?' She says, '3 days.' hmm..'what's he do'. ...."local cop." 'he have keys?' "yes", ..
So I said "look a guy with a gun, a set of keys and he didn't break it off...I think you look great in heels despite being six one, and you are a lovely. But my Mom raised no fools...Bye."
They got back together, I see her now and then..her favorite line is ..."I think you missed on heck of a test drive with a really pee-d off woman. " Hm....
There was this one time at band camp NO NO NO..
John Conley
Musica est vita
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This isn't a story about all the foxy girls musicians get, we all know about that that's why we became players in the first place.
First, I'm one of the straightest people around. I drink just enough to be sociable but no drugs, ever. I'm in Yakima Washington around 1970 playing and staying at the Commercial Hotel. I pick up a dancer from the strip club next door and she takes me to a little house on a quiet street, it's maybe 3am. We do our thing and just as we finished around 4 or 4:30 the SWAT team shows up. 3 or 4 cops bust in and I see more outside. Lots of guns and bright lights. One of them holding some sort of big gun tells me to sit there and don't move while a 2 more go right to the kitchen, I hear noise like they're ripping out something and they come out with 2 or 3 bags of stash. They obviously knew exactly where it was. They take her right away and ask me who I am and I explain I just got into town from California a few days ago and just met her that night. I also told him I was a former Air Force intelligence analyst and didn't have any clue about what was going on here. I kept myself under control and made my answers as short and professional as I could under the circumstances but I was crapping bullets believe me. Thank whoever that she didn't offer me anything (I wouldn't have taken it but it still could have been sitting there) and wasn't using herself. Nothing in the front room but a couple of beers. I then ask if I can put my pants on and he says ok after checking my pockets and ID. He gives me two choices. You can get all righteous and start talking about police abuse and your civil rights and all that and we'll take you downtown, book you as an accessory and get you introduced to all the public defenders or you can go with one of the officers to the station and sit there quietly, no phone calls and someone will drive you back to the hotel when this is over. I gave him a pleasant smile and said I'll take choice #2, thank you very much. The next day the news is full of the largest drug bust in Tri-State history, they arrested over a hundred people and confiscated who knows what.
This could have been a life changing disaster. I've told this story to lots of young people over the years, told them you don't want to be caught in the middle of something like this, trust me.
I was a bit more careful about who I went with after that.
Bob
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In reply to Conley, jazzmammal and GDaddy . . . . Did you guys leave a tip?
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You guys are hillarious! LOL
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Now, that's a great story, with a good "musical respons", added here, from a group playing on a beach!! These kinds of stories could be reported ad nauseum, I'll bet... Proof-Positive that " we're all human"...especially, some of "we heat-seeking-musicians"!!... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0qQXb_y84Let's all sing along with the provided lyrics and why not cry in our beer at the same time!! and, about this group and it's musical selections...not a bad gig at all!!!....I love a swingin'Riverfront or Beach-Boardwalk/Bar Gig... (San Antonio/Chicago, etc.)... but not in the cold and snow!! Just remember, according to this video...I guess it's become "A Gay Ol' Life"! 
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We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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