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Well, another Christmas gig under our belts. Every standard, rock song, or carol that exists, I think we played them all. The hall is really a vaulted entrance, and in a pinch holds 100 plus people, I think more than that were there. We were set up with the bose L1 over my left shoulder and my wife standing with her flute beside me to the right of the keyboard. So, it gets crowded, punch, shrimp, cookies cakes etc. Donation box for the food bank and prizes. When it got really busy I could not hear my wife, even with my hearing aids cranked. This lasted a few minutes and I ended up playing 2 pieces solo and things 'calmed' down. I think we might have been competing for talking time and pushed their volumes up. So we get home have a bowl of greul and some stale bread toasted and slathered with an animal byproduct. And my wife explains that she started player an octave above the normal one. Of course a flute player would know she has a crappy flute, no foot on it, and C is a chore at the bottom. Anyway she says if you play higher an octave it's easier to hear. Maybe for her. I have to get her to drag the thing out and play way up, maybe she's going past my hearing. So I say (and when it comes to the 2 of us I remind her I'm always right cough cough) the higher the pitch the less distance it will travel. She says, "where do you come up with this crap?", and I reply, for the guys on the forum, they taught me this stuff, or I learned it in physics. (Don't mention the latter, I ran the high school physics department for 3 years LOL, I did all the work, set ups, lab tech, clean gear etc. super nerd), and I remember all kinds of things she wants me to forget. I digress, again. SO, the questions are: 1. Does a higher pitched sound carry the same as the lower pitch at the same 'intensity'? 2. Would using a mic in that setting (I just didn't take one), help or would the 'audience' talk louder. BTW, they always make a choir of 90 year old women who have christmas song sheets and yell out numbers. Right in the middle somewhere on old gal says When Irish Eyes are smiling. I had worked that out last week so I launched into it and told the flute player beside me where it was on her music stand. What a hoot. We went back go Angels we have heard on high. I've heard some when I'm high. (The latter is legal for me now). I hope she's going to like the new yamaha flute I'm giving her for christmas.  (I'm using her raise to pay for it...) 
John Conley
Musica est vita
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1- No, othwise whales would squeak. 2- I doubt it, some people always talk, and they tend to talk louder when things are amplified. I see you got something useful made of wood for the wife, although I would have loved to hear the outcome if it had been a snowshovel.
Chris
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Good story John. Sounds like a good time was had by all. I liked the food parts -- I usually gain several pounds this time of year lol. On to the questions. 1. If you walk away from music the last thing you'll hear is base, and whales use base and sub-bass over many miles as mentioned above. 2. It depends on the crowd of course, but I think sinbad probably nailed it. People love to talk it seems. The only thing I can think of that you might try is a small speaker, used as a personal monitor, and sat up on a stand close to you. To avoid problems, have a mike feeding your monitor and nothing else. That would be easy enough to check out at least. Edit: These things are high priced, but this would be ideal for what I was talking about. They'll mount on a stand and would be easy to set up as you can run the mike straight to it. http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SRM150
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Higher pitches indeed are attenuated more quickly with distance than lower pitches. Whether one octave will make a big difference for audibility or not is a different matter. Here's an online calculator to demonstrate. http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-air.htmPut in 440 Hz: dB attenuation per meter is 0.2. So if wife is 3m away, the air attenuation at that note is 0.6; not too much. Put in 880 Hz: dB attenuation per meter is 0.4. Same 3m away, she's 1.2 dB lower where you stand than what she hears. Put in 1320 Hz: dB attenuation per meter is 0.6, or 1.8 dB lower where you stand compared to what she hears. 2640 (upper range of flute notes, yes?) and the attenuation is 1.6 dB/meter. Now we're talking some real attenuation. Those attenuations in the normal playing range really aren't that significant at the distances you are working with her. John, you could also use some isolating in-ear monitors - they will help. Use one side in, one side just hanging around your neck. Have you gone to see Marshall Chasin yet? He will have several, well informed potential solutions for you to try. -Scott
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Thanks Scott.
I have not yet gone to see that doctor. To be honest, I'm still on the 'watch' this guy close list. In fact, my potential last visit is today. (I've been on a monthly rotation of oncologists, today is the Radiation guy. I've ongoing pain clinic visits but those don't count eh?
So I already know, I'm kicked to the curb today, so to speak.
We don't plan on a lot of gigs. I do have a celtic show we've been messing with, but it's a full blown a/v thing with images of Scotland and a projector.
Today is a milestone of sorts. I was not going to worry about my hearing if I wasn't cancer free, they told me any more chemo and I might be totally deaf. I asked them pointedly, how often does someone face the decision to have chemo to gain a month or two, even if it makes them deaf, and they told me at that clinic, once a week at least. What a tough one that is.
So, we are talking frequencies I can hear. My hearing aids really only kick in at 2200 or something. Over 3 is GONE. In between some notes don't sound right, even amplified. 2700 is dicey, it starts to crack. From there up a few notes they are flat or sharp, broken and faded.
Here's a real world example for me. I had my hearing aids on the regular setting and it started to rain. I was driving. The sound of the tires in the rain on the road was louder than the average rock band to me. I tried all 3 settings. The regular one pitch shifts stuff for sibilance over 2700, so I can try and hear the letter S etc. The next one is for music with no pitch shifting. (I had to beg for that, they didn't understand at all what I was on about, but you can't take a D and drop it so that is 7 or 8 notes lower and listen to any music). The 3rd setting is 'comfort in noise.' Right.
I can now name a host of stuff you don't want to hear. The only thing wearing hearing aids does in a mall is make all the air movement, fans, hissing 100 times louder. I can't hear it, wait turn them on, I can't hear you. Winner...silence. The same for traffic, shopping carts that bang, etc. Heck, even regular sounds without hearing aids are too loud. If the neighbours slam the car door I can come out of my chair, even with the doors and windows closed.
As stupid as that 'sounds' (good pun eh?), I'm stuck so to speak.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
If the neighbours slam the car door I can come out of my chair, even with the doors and windows closed.
Don't they build limiters into those things?
A TV sound man in Atlanta lost his hearing several years ago when a bomb went off while he was recording. Seems like there should have been a clamp in there somewhere. Sounded like a product liability lawsuit then, and does now. Just sayin'.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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I don't need hearing aids for the car door to make that noise. The noise it makes is in an area I need no boost at all. Fact is something called recruitment happens. So they tell me. It makes certain sounds way louder. And there is the fact you don't hear regular stuff, so any noise is a distraction. I can hear a truck about 20 houses away. Good thing there are usually only 4. Postal Truck, FedEx, Ups, and the railway guy with the 1/2 pickup 1/2 railcar thing that's a diesel and makes a god awful sound.
There are many kinds of deaf too. The best would be to lose just enough all the way across so that you'd get it back with hearing aids.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Recruitment does happen. It has something to do with this kind of a concept:
Your brain has a certain resolution for processing of audio signals. Think of it as a 16 bit A/D converter. There are 2^16 values for sound level that the brain processes.
When you lose sensitivity in your hearing, it's primarily physiological - not neurological/psychological.
So, those 2^16 values that used to be spread over a wide audio level range, now focus their attention on the remaining dynamic range of the hearing.
The brain still processes the step changes as if it's spread over a wide range, where the steps were large, but now your steps are small due to physiological damage. The tweak to the next step is physically small, but the brain still thinks "Hey that's a bigger step change" so, blips become bangs.
Make sense?
@Ryszard: yes there is all kinds of limiting, multi-channel in fact, in modern hearing aids. Doesn't change the issue with recruitment.
John, here's hoping you get pulled off of the 'watch closely' list in a good direction.
-Scott
Last edited by rockstar_not; 12/16/11 11:56 AM.
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