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Joined: Oct 2008
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there is a difference between recording for the radio and live performance. The difference is in the balance and energy. This is especially noticeable at low to moderate volume levels.
(snip)
I ended up doing the songs from scratch with the help of BiaB on MIDI instruments so I could control everything.
I totally agree with your observation that the approach that makes a great studio master is not the same as the approach you need for live music. To me, live music is all about the energy! When I watched you and Leilani perform it was obvious that you put a lot of work into making your sets energetic and fun. It was also obvious that your audience responded exactly as you programmed them to. You are the master of reading an audience and changing your set and banter to herd them onto the dance floor!
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Thanks for the kind words. I couldn't have done those kind of backing tracks with karaoke files or even real tracks. MIDI is actually way superior for that. With pre-recorded music, how can you - pump up the snare drum
- add a timbale a few tics ahead of the snare to emulate the stick hitting the rim of the drum -- (the crack of the snare drum is very important in rock, fusion jazz, and Nashville music, but if recorded loud like it should be live, it would overpower the record)
- pump up the cymbals or change them to something brighter (again, this would overpower a record, but add pizzazz to a live performance)
- adjust the groove so the proper beats or sub-beats of the measure are a little ahead or behind the beat (live groove is always more exaggerated than recording groove)
- change the bass drum to a harder sound with zero effects on it
- change the sound of the bass itself to give it more presence
- change the tone of some of the backing instruments (piano, guitar, etc.) to something with more edge, or change the instrument itself (example: grand piano to bright piano)
- and so on???
I started playing in live bands in the 1960s, and have been lucky enough to play with some of the greatest rock musicians when their recordings were on top of the charts. We were the warm up or back up band for many concerts. I've also done recording studio work. And I remember groups coming in with their own instruments and not getting to play in the session. The reason is that recording and live performances require different skills, and back in the 1960s and early 1970s, not many bands knew how to work the studio. There is a very different approach to playing your instruments to make a good record. The studio musicians know how to make good records, and the live musicians know how to get a good stage musical performance. You don't play the same way for both. So when I started a duo with backing tracks (due to the economics of the day and need to continue making a living doing music and nothing but music) I wanted my tracks to have the energy level of a band. I bought a couple of MIDI tracks back in the 1980s and didn't like any of them. They went from OK to laughably bad. So I decided to make my own. Fortunately at that time I already played and gigged on drums, bass, rhythm guitar, keys, flute, and sax (I've since added a few more instruments) so I could record the parts in real time. It's the only way I know to get the proper groove. I did the same when writing my styles for BiaB. The early styles used the drum grid, because it was the only way available to do it. I played everything else live into a sequencer and imported the parts into BiaB. Ever since "live drums" was introduced I also put the drums in live (with the exception of techno type styles where the drums need to be robotic). There are pros and cons to everything. While playing karaoke or real tracks might give you a better tone, the amount of editing is minuscule. With a good MIDI sound module, you can get up to 95% of the tone of the 'real' instrument but have 1,000 times more editing power to add more expression and energy to the song. If the tone is anywhere in the ballpark, the audience will respond more to the expression in the music than to the tone of the instrument. If you play live and play a Karaoke track back to back with the same MIDI file, if the MIDI file is done right and you have a decent synth, the MIDI version will move the audience better. It takes a more time to either record your own backing tracks or to buy pre-recorded MIDI tracks and learn how to make them right. You try things, put them up on the PA, figure out what else you need to do, and then do it again at first. But the skills you learn early on are not forgotten, so they get easier and easier to apply. Music is emotional expression. It's not necessarily about tone, after all, if it was, Dr. John, Stevie Nicks, Leonard Cohen, John Lennon and scores of others would have never had hit records. But they all expressed themselves well, and the audience responds to expression and not tone. So buy Karaoke tracks if you must, but if your competitor is good at making MIDI tracks, your competitor will sound better. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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i have been using midi karaoke backing tracks for years. i prefer them more than mp3 etc. the tracks have the dinamics of the live sound. uncompressed and better timing. i re edit them in a midi editor and use outboard sound modules. i use live bass and guitars. never had a problem. just use your ears. just added a Ketron module to the rig.
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I agree with Pat.
I have 300 songs. I've heard Pat's stuff. You're just lazy to learn the program.
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I agree with Pat.
I have 300 songs. I've heard Pat's stuff. You're just lazy to learn the program.
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First post December 2012, not bad. What I've discovered in the last 5 years or so is Youtube has a ton of good backing tracks in lots of styles. Of course like any other free search what you find is what you get, it may work or not but I've found some really nice ones. I don't care about using them for live performance, I use them to practice my keyboard playing. Here's one I found last week, I Wish https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL6WWrBojf8This one has a really nice live quality to it and it kicks butt. I couldn't make this myself in RB without a whole lot of work especially the drums. Earlier is this thread someone mentioned Cocaine as an example of a tune you can't do in Biab. He's right but here's a YT backing track I just found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N04yx-ABPUI'm not going to get into whether or not somebody is lazy, lots of folks just are not tech oriented, don't play an instrument well or simply don't have the time to put stuff together from scratch. Note's points are very well made and very correct. They're also way over the heads of lots of folks, they really can't hear or appreciate the difference between one of his creations to be used for live performance and a commercial midi or karaoke file. My sister used to sing in large regional karaoke contests and they all use commercial files and they sound awesome going through a large FOH system. Those big contests also have professional soundmen running the PA and that is a huge thing. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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