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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 430
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 430 |
I thought I'll post this just in case anyone else have (also) been blissfully unaware of how to really create good recordings. (I'm not saying I have it perfect NOW but I am surely on my way) I have been dabbling with BIAB and before RB was there PT and if the correct method was documented anywhere I surely did not see it (maybe I should really start reading the documentation) I was satisfied with my recordings but they were never quite clear enough ...but "what can you expect from home recordings anyway?" Then a chap at work decided to build himself a home studio (his retirement plan)and is planning to record school concerts and local muso's planning a career of fame. He was blown away by BIAB and the potential to add it to his arsenal to help people quickly create demo tracks and him recording them. However he bought Cubase with an M-Audio 2424 Firewire. He had NO experience recording at this stage so we started sharing and mutual discussions. He also found an OLD guy who operates a home studio with OLD equipment making professional recordings and this guy agreed to teach him the ropes a bit and wants to pass some of his extra work to him. So a week ago he had his first session and I got the passed on version and notes .... What I never did ...(or understood) was 1. Set up and select the compressor BEFORE starting the recording. I searched and found Noel96's instructions/tips on how to use the PGDynamics Compressor invaluable ( http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=185394After recording: 2. Use a limiter 3. If required use a De-esser ( I download the Tonmann De-Esser) I re-recorded 14 of my songs this weekend and it sounds brilliant! (I just had to share it with people who will understand)
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
BIAB 2026W + RB
M-Audio FastTrack C600, Rode NT2-A
Digitech VoiceLive 4
Epiphone Sheraton, Ibanez 12str, Washburn 6str, Cort 6Str Nylon
Yanagisawa Tenor Sax
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RealBand
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 177
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 177 |
Thanks a million for revisiting this key lesson on dynamics controls. Much appreciated! Just applied it to a song I've been working on and got remarkable clarity and presence... I'll share the result when I've got my part integrated...
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RealBand
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 794
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 794 |
TBH, that really is NOT the way to record. All recordings should be "clean" as in no effects, no processing, nothing.
Then when mixing and mastering the engineer has pristine audio to deal with.
Recording, mixing and mastering are three distinct and VERY different processes.
just my 2c fwiw
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RealBand
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 177
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 177 |
Reasonable thought, though this isn't, at least for me, about recording, per se. It's about playing back pre-recorded Real Tracks, many of which have received much processing on their way to becoming a Real Track, before being mixed down to a complete song wave file. So, Noel's idea is really a way to smooth dynamics, on instruments (real tracks) in mix-down, that do have a significant dynamic range that could be enhanced, smoothed, through use of compression. I think it's really what your comment intended, again, since the tracks have already been recorded as Real Tracks, and are being mixed down to a stereo wave file. Try it..
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RealBand
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 794
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 794 |
Ahh I get you, no probs  - yep already done all of that sort of thing  except my "weapon" of choice is Sonar. Cheers
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 430
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 430 |
Hi Joden,
I agree but the way this old guy explained it to us is that the compressor just assists with managing the input signal ... no other effects are added at this point, so it still stays completely clean.
In this case I am the artist, the recorder and the engineer!
Whether or not this is the way to record is maybe wrong or at least debatable but as they say , "the proof is in the pudding" and for me the final product is now 100% better ....
(if this is wrong then I could be still using my equipment incorrect but up to now I could not make headway with THAT so my new workflow is now adopted (for me)
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
BIAB 2026W + RB
M-Audio FastTrack C600, Rode NT2-A
Digitech VoiceLive 4
Epiphone Sheraton, Ibanez 12str, Washburn 6str, Cort 6Str Nylon
Yanagisawa Tenor Sax
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,365
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,365 |
As another old guy, perhaps I can throw some light on this.
Back in the day, we used to track everything to tape through a compressor because it was the only way to get a decent signal to noise ratio. If you compressed the recorded signal afterwards, it compressed the tape hiss as well and brought up the noise floor. We made system work, but occasionally an inexperienced engineer would ruin a good take by using the wrong compressor setting.
With digital, the noise floor is so low that it's quite possible to track without a compressor in most cases and then compress or upward limit afterwards. The result is pretty much the same, but the engineer gets to experiment more.
The importance of good principles when tracking cannot be over-emphasized. If something is recorded badly it won't mix well and mastering will not improve it either.
ROG.
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RealBand
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,870
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,870 |
I never use a compressor on the input for a BB/RB track or when I record live tracks. I WANT all those dynamics to be present in the track. I can work with those varying levels to make a good sounding track.... but I can not un-compress something later if I don't like it or make it fit properly.
I use compression on the back side only. With digital, there are plenty of ways to get good strong clean signals into the tracks up front.
I have noticed that RB & BB create strong, clean tracks, so there is no need to compress them at all. Any FX included from inside BB/RB is beyond my control but I have never heard the need to do anything to them on the front side as I import them to SONAR.
In Sonar, I use EQ, and reverb on some tracks. The EQ is mostly gentle depending on the instrument and I have some custom presets for piano, drums and bass.
I use Ozone and some other stuff to massage the tracks & busses as needed. I almost never use compression in a stand alone event in a track. Look at my songs. Open them in a wave editor and you don't see evidence of compression.... typical things like clipped tops and overs.... nope, not there. I'm not against compression, it's just that I use it sparingly and in the right way and place.
I can get my music plenty loud without using over-compression. I believe most people misuse compressors and limiters and think they are only for making the music louder.
Rather than using compression on the front side, I'd rather use technique to record a smooth track to start. With BB & RB renders, I have not seen problems in volume levels that could not be solved with a simple volume envelope. Remember, compression is cumulative, and when you compress going in, compress in a track and then compress and limit the output, you have one squashed sounding track in the end when it's played on a decent sounding system.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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RealBand
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 794
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 794 |
Yep totally agree Guitarhacker.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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