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I am just offering the OP some info based on my experiences, which go back a long way  Yup, so do a lot of others experiences.....;) Yep, I agree. I was not saying any different 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Someone,
I`m a working Musician and use my BIAB in a Laptop.
I understand laptop sound-cards aren`t that great. Is there something like an external Sound Card or Midi module that will improve sound quality furthermore?
Much appreciated,
Mike Cortina OK... so going back to the original post... Working musician on a lappy using BB. Heard that factory cards are generally lacking and seeks better quality sound from BB. BB on a laptop runs perfectly fine on the factory sound card and latency has NEVER been an issue in my laptop under this scenario. I can truthfully state that I have never had latency in my stock, off the shelf DELL lappy with BB using the factory card. The sounds of the instruments you hear are a result of the soft synth your BB loads as it's default synth. Mine just happens to be TTS-1. I believe you can easily make other synths the default. BB will use real tracks when the style dictates and they are available. Real tracks are sampled and the sound quality generally doesn't get better than sampled. So, for live use, I believe a stock lappy and factory card would work just fine in this situation. An aftermarket interface opens the doors to other options. The sound quality will be fairly close to what it was with the factory card if you use the same default synth and midi based styles. It's only when one is using a DAW such as Sonar where latency between synth tracks and live recorded audio becomes an issue which requires a better interface to handle the load in real time.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sorry GH, but imo that advice is flawed. I am not saying you are incorrect, as you may be satisfied with that, but I think the advice is flawed.
Most laptop soundcards are compromises at best, and to say that the sound quality of an external sound card is about the same as the laptop is, in my view, plain wrong.
This is nothing to do with the quality of the sound patches themselves. Although any of the GM soundbanks are pretty ordinary. Even the Hi-Q stuff is not that much better in this regard, and if the OP wishes to obtain an external sound module to improve on the quality of sound patches, then a decent external audio/midi interface is a necessity.
This is true even for a desktop DAW.
If you are only playing back music then latency is not really an issue even using WDM drivers, however if the OP wishes to include a soft synth or two, then they will run into some serious latency issues.
Add to this, no laptop has built-in midi interfaces (apart from Atari's they never have) so if an external sound generator is required then an external midi interface is needed, and as most audio interfaces also carry a midi interface it would be the way to go.
Not to mention most, if not all, laptop sound devices have no capacity for ASIO drivers, and Microsofts wasAPI (supposedly MS answer to ASIO) drivers are flaky at best. ASIO4ALL is only a layer which still sits on top of the WDM drivers, and offers a pseudo direct access to the CPU cycles. Push ASIO4all and you will soon come up short
In my view to rely on the audio quality of a laptops sound card, and the pretty ordinary quality of the headphone output coupled with the very ordinary GM soundbanks of either the Coyote synth, or the Microsoft soft synth may be okay (just) for home tinkering, but I would rather play CDs at agig rather than subject the audience to that level of sound quality.
Unless a very basic and bland sound is required by the OP, then restricting themselves to only the laptop devices will leave them greatly disappointed. Again, just my view.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think he is looking for something to improve the rendered quality of the midi sounds -- like the ketron sd2 or something like that.. Well if he's after that I have a like new SD4 for sale.Selling it for a friend who already had an SD2. He didn't realise that the sounds in the SD4 are the same and he didn't need the extras in the SD4. The SD4 has the same sounds, but some cool additional features. For one, if you have a woodwind controller, you can use it without a laptop. Also, you can "layer" sounds, like trombones in 4ths, or Bari, tenor, trumpet playing 1,5,b7 for chord shouts. It's a lot more expensive, but worth it for those features, IMO.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sorry Joden imo your comments are also not exactly correct either.
Many have posted here that the headphone outputs on a modern laptop are very good. This is because the vast majority of laptop users are now using them to watch high definition movies with surround sound and high quality music vids. Those require good audio outputs. Older laptops or maybe real elcheapo netbooks don't have that and that may be what you're thinking of. About 4 years ago I was using a new Acer for some live gigs and the sound quality was excellent going into a JBL based PA with a five buck RatShack stereo splitter.
You're assuming people are only using basic GM softsynths. Also not true at all. What about Garritan, Sampletank and all the other top shelf VSTi's? There's folks right here who are using Kontakt or Halion and those arn't cheap. The sound quality of those synths is very good and Biab or any other DAW will process those and output the result through the headphone jack just fine. ASIO will interface with internal laptop soundcards just fine as well and will reduce the latency for live playing.
This raises another point. If you're not playing a softsynth live in real time then latency is not an issue and this is a very important point that causes mass confusion around here. Unless you're playing a softsynth live latency does NOT MATTER. This means that any comments about ASIO working or not working with this or that laptop or software can be completely irrelevant.
The next point is unless you're using a hardware synth that does not have a USB connection then you don't even need an interface for that either when using a laptop. Just plug in a Ketron or Sonic Cell using USB and you're good to go.
Now, the final point is live recording. If you're recording say your live keyboard playing or live vocals using a mic then yes, you need something to plug your keyboard audio outs and/or mics into and that would require an interface but even then lots of modern keyboards have USB as well so still no interface is required in lots of cases.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sorry to rain on your parade Bob, but unless the laptop has more than a single headphone socket, you are not going to get surround sound, only stereo. However some really new laptops do have decent sound, certainly not at the level of a dedicated interface, but good enough for MP3 playback.
Re latency, I already made that point clear in the post - read it.
USB interface is only really decent if using USB2, and even then can be subject to cracks pops and other noises due to the USB circuitry, not to mention ground loops if the laptop has an earth pin on the power supply. USB 1.1 is barely useable, but again acceptable if used in low-stress environments.
Most modern keyboards (apart from arrangers, and even then only the top models) have no audio interfacing of any quality afaic, apart from the odd XLR input. If I want to record mics I certainly would not be running them via noisy and lower grade pre-amps that are stuck into keyboards.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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" I can see clearly now..." Thanks a lot GuitarHacker. You know sometimes we think therès more and...there isn`t.
Now I can carry on with my life in Peace !
Thanks !
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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" I can see clearly now..." Thanks a lot GuitarHacker. You know sometimes we think therès more and...there isn`t.
Now I can carry on with my life in Peace !
Thanks ! you'll learn
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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There is probably not a person more in favor of using external interfaces running ASIO drivers than me.
Having said that, sometimes a factory card WILL do the job just as good as the aftermarket interfaces.
As far as sound quality, just check the specs on the factory cards and compare that to the external interfaces. Not much difference. And digital is digital...sample rates, word depth.... no matter the hardware. There may be differences in the audio output circuit that colors the sound a bit, but even that is minor in the factory cards.
The biggest difference between the factory card and the aftermarket cards is the after markets use the much better ASIO drivers and can therefore run the softsynths more efficiently and keep everything synced up at the speakers. There are more reasons to use the aftermarkets and I am a big proponent of people using them, but there is a time and a place to use the factory card and the sound quality you get will be just as good.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ok Joden, I'm trying to be gentle here but you're not making it easy. What kind of old laptop are you talking about that doesn't have USB2? 2.0 has been out for how long now? Of course everything is USB2 and most newer ones are USB3. You're using the old fake strawman argument by bringing up USB1 when nobody is using that anymore. We're talking about recent lappys here, not antiques.
As to the sound quality of the headphone outs there's tons of detailed tech articles about that. The sound quality is excellent coming out of a good laptop. And I don't mean a good laptop bought this year, I'm talking say, the last 3-5 years.
I said nothing about using a keyboard as an interface, I was only referring to using a keyboard as a sound source through USB. Works great.
The last point is ground hum. That's been talked about here for years too. Run it on the battery or pick up a fifteen buck adapter, problem solved.
Sheesh buddy.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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USB interface is only really decent if using USB2, and even then can be subject to cracks pops and other noises due to the USB circuitry, not to mention ground loops if the laptop has an earth pin on the power supply. USB 1.1 is barely useable, but again acceptable if used in low-stress environments.
Most modern keyboards (apart from arrangers, and even then only the top models) have no audio interfacing of any quality afaic, apart from the odd XLR input. If I want to record mics I certainly would not be running them via noisy and lower grade pre-amps that are stuck into keyboards.
USB interfaces are the solution to cracks, pops, and audio drops. The problem is not the USB circuitry, but the factory sound card not being able to handle the load put on it by a DAW and the soft synths in the stuff we use. I don't know of a keyboard that has a built in interface where you can plug in mics..... (and outputs for speakers?) to use it as an interface. I'm firmly against the gizmo gimmick interfaces that combine an interface with anything else. I've seen lots of folks come to a different forum with them having all sorts of issues.... nope, I'm not a fan of those things. A good interface should run on USB, use ASIO drivers, have phantom power, a minimum of 2 channels with 1/4 and XLR jacks on each channel input, and built in pristine preamps..... That's all.... no mixer, no guitar fx, no nothing but interface..... of course, that's just my opinion.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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A good interface should run on USB, use ASIO drivers, have phantom power, a minimum of 2 channels with 1/4 and XLR jacks on each channel input, and built in pristine preamps..... That's all.... no mixer, no guitar fx, no nothing but interface..... of course, that's just my opinion. It is also my opinion.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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This also brings up another thought. Joden mentions surround sound. I respectfully disagree with that though, I guess I fail to understand the point to that for a "working " musician. In any live situation who projects surround sound to an audience, heck even stereo can be problematic depending on the stage setup and such. Imagine panned sounds going to an audience that is dispersed far to the right or left. Even mixing for surround is rarely needed, as most music is listened to on stereo equipment. There is a place for it, but nothing that comes to mind for a "working" musician.
As far a internal or external sound card go there is no reason for external unless you are talking recording input needs, or sending midi to a synth. Just a working musician playing for an audience any good signal sent out and summed at the mixer with suffice, especially when you consider back ground noise, room acoustics, and PA dynamics.
With regard to recording most of the major brands have solid specs. There is nothing wrong with USB, and actually that is the direction most companies are going with firewire dying out. Far more effort and progress is being made in USB drivers these days.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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As far a internal or external sound card go there is no reason for external unless you are talking recording input needs, or sending midi to a synth. Just a working musician playing for an audience any good signal sent out and summed at the mixer with suffice, especially when you consider back ground noise, room acoustics, and PA dynamics. This is exactly it. This is all the OP Mike is asking about and for that a laptop's headphone out is just as good as a good interface. An interface has nothing to do with improving playback sound quality when compared to a newer laptop. The outputs are designed to go to a high powered home theater sound system. If it was crappy sound everybody would hear it and they don't. Interfaces are needed for recording not simply playback and this is where I disagree with Guitarhacker. Your built in soundcard has no problem outputting a high quality stereo signal from your DAW. It isn't processing all the midi synth and audio tracks, your DAW is doing that and the DAW's mixer sends the signal to the soundcard. If you don't believe me recheck your audio output setup inside Biab, Sonar or whatever DAW you're using. Everything is summed to a final wav out and that's all the soundcard sees. All the soundcard is doing is routing the resulting mix out, not processing the midi and such. Any glitches you hear are happening before your computer's built in soundcard. Another thing is latency and ASIO. With PG software the default is to use MME as the audio output driver because not too many people play a midi instrument through Biab live using a softsynth like the TTS-1. If you do that then yes, latency is a problem and you need ASIO but if you're not playing a midi softsynth live then ASIO is irrelevant. Other DAW's though can be a different story if they require ASIO and don't have an MME or WDM audio output option. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Couple of comments about the ASIO and MME/WDM mentions in several recent posts:
ASIO is not uniform. It is a standard, but each hardware vendor writes its own drivers. Thus some implementations of ASIO are excellent, others not. My Tascam, for example, works better with the WDM driver, and there is a recommendation from Cakewalk for using WDM with SONAR (even when recording).
BIAB still says MME, but that has meant WDM for years. It just hasn't been changed in the dialog box.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BIAB still says MME, but that has meant WDM for years. It just hasn't been changed in the dialog box.
I thought that too Matt until I got into it with Peter last Xmas concerning out of date references in the help files. He gave me a technical explanation about how MME is still current with different code than WDM therefore calling it MME is correct. Can't argue with the good Doctor he knows his stuff. He did agree to remove the other obsolete technical references I talked about in the documentation. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
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