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I'm new to these real tracks which are very hip, may I say. What I want to know is can I export these tracks as a whole (that is as a band) or as an individual instrumental track to my Cubase program for further editing, etc.? I have learned that these tracks can be converted to aiff files, but can these be manipulated in the same way midi files can by dropping them into Cubase? Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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Audio Tracks, such as those created when using RealInstruments from Band in a Box, cannot really be "manipulated" once imported into a DAW such as Cubase, at least not in the sense that true MIDI can be manipulated, such as changing notes to suit what you want to hear, at least not easily.
Those certain RealTracks that have the Trackname Underscored also support Notation, which is MIDI based and pretty much follow the notes that the RealTrack instrument plays at the time, there is a way to export the Notation Data from these and open them as MIDI and thus manipulate note names, note-on, duration, etc. within the MIDI domain, but bear in mind that this performance will no longer be a RealTrack performance, the sound will depend upon your choice and use of whatever MIDI synth/sampler you have available in Cubase. AND, the subtle things such as Velocities, Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release are likely to be lost when doing it that way.
RealTracks and the way they work are NOT MIDI. They are based upon using Audio Recordings of live players that are intelligently chopped up and reassembled as a "performance" that is not "one note at a time" as in MIDI data performances, but are based on PHRASES" of varying duration. This is why they sound so realistic. Attempts to chop that back up into the one-note-at-a-time MIDI scenario are self-defeating, since that is what a MIDI track firing a synth/sampler one note at a time is already doing. So at that point, I would rather just use MIDI to begin with. It would be far less work.
--Mac
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Jim Mac is right in the most part, however (mac i can't believe i would ever not fully agree with you) If you use a program similar to melodyne then some of the audio tracks once exported could be edited in a DAW like Cubase. I do not have Cubase, but use Studio one, which has ARA connection to Melodyne, and there you can move audio notes around.
I understand Cubase has it's own plugin similar to this, but have no real knowledge of this.
Some of the things that could be done with melodyne would be note pitch movement, placement, time line movement, harmony notes added and the like.
Doing a test as i type to see how this works for me on my system
Last edited by Robh; 12/25/13 10:10 AM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Okay did a test where i generated a piano track, and then save the track as a wave file. Then closed RB (BiaB would be the same) and opened studio one. Dragged the track on to the grid, and it played nicely. Then right clicked the piano track, and clicked on edit in Melodyne. the track was opened up as audio notes, and i was able to drag the notes up and down in pitch, and also left and right in time. I could copy and paste notes to add harmony notes as well. So the long answer is yes you can manipulate Audio tracks like midi, but only with audio programs like Melodyne, not directly as a typical audio track.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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I'm new to these real tracks which are very hip, may I say. What I want to know is can I export these tracks as a whole (that is as a band) or as an individual instrumental track to my Cubase program for further editing, etc.? I have learned that these tracks can be converted to aiff files, but can these be manipulated in the same way midi files can by dropping them into Cubase? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Jim, a couple of comments on your questions, some of which reinforce answers you already have. You can export one audio track at a time to Cubase, or you can export all of them in one operation. In BIAB this is called Drag 'n Drop. You literally drag the instrument button to the Dropbox in the upper left corner. That Dropbox has four sections, which produce different results. If you drag the Master button, you get all the tracks. You want the individual instruments to remain separate tracks until the very last step in Cubase, which is mixing down to a stereo file. I recommend you work with .WAV files. You always want to work with the highest possible audio quality right up to the last step, where you may then wish to create a compressed file like an MP3. About Melodyne, there are different versions. Melodyne Editor is the one that allows manipulation of pitches and timing of individual parts in audio files, as described above. Melodyne may be run as a stand=alone program, or as a plugin in a DAW like Cubase. Depending on how one defines manipulation, there are lots of other things you can do to an audio file, like adding reverb, changing the volume or the apparent stereo width, doing equalization changes (EQ), adding distortion, removing noise below a certain level, and many more. It is not as easy as manipulating a MIDI file as mentioned, but there is a lot you can do.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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To add to Matt's good advice, and also some clarity from mine. In Melodyne, there is the essentials version which i have, and the editor version. Essentials will edit a single track very well like a solo guitar, or one hand of a piano, vocal what ever, where the editor version works with polyphonic tracks where there are a ton of notes like chords and such. Cubase also has variaudio that does a lot of what Melodyne does but i believe melodyne does it better.
We have more tools available than ever before.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Right. The first time I saw Melodyne Editor work, I was amazed.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I have found that there is still a lot of manual cleanup and etc. involved with trying to use Melodyne in conversion of audio music into MIDI data.
On top of that, there is still the need to be a MIDIOT to the fullest extent of the meaning of that word, in order to make those files sound halfway decent.
--Mac
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Thank you for this. I take your point, but I can see a use for these real tracks in my DAW (Cubase). I can see importing these audio files into cubase as a whole in the tempo, key, with their chord progressions and mixing several of these together and cutting, splicing, more or less orchestrating them--taking parts out, shifting from one track to another. Much as one would do in a studio setting with audio tracks. I've watched engineers bouncing from one track of mine to another trying to get a decent take.
Is this an appropriate use of the real tracks to you? When I think about it, the only thing I can see not being able to do is changing tempos. Is that doable with audio? I doubt it. I find the vital flaw in BIAB is that you just can't use one song file in an entire piece. It just gets too boring.
Thanks for your help. Happy Holidays.
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Hello Robh: I do have Melodyne. I've only scratched the surface with it, but I can see the potential for manipulating audio. My question would be: Why would I need to do such a thing with Real Tracks? Aren't they in tune? I think I might just do that with vocals. Of which, mine can use a lot of help. By the way, would it be worth my while to upgrade to Melodyne 2? They keep bugging me. Happy Holidays.
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Hello Mac: It's true, midi is midi and it sounds like it. I don't think I would go through the process of importing audio files into Cubase so I could turn them back into midi files. But I can see the potential of using layered RealTracks, midi files, my audio performance to make a decent product. But, to get back to the elemental, how do I export these real tracks into cubase and can the "band" tracks that I find in BIAB be exported as a whole and then be broken into separate tracks?
Sorry, I read your earliest post and didn't skip down to see that you have explained this very well. So, its up to me to try to absorb this stuff and make it mine.
The fact is I've always dealt with all of these programs--melodyne, cubase, BIAB, my mixer, the synth modules--on the most superficial level. I've concentrated on my playing. But now my gigging career is winding down and I'm going to try to learn these programs more thoroughly with all of your expert help.
Last edited by Jim Snodgrass; 12/25/13 07:21 PM.
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Melodyne can do far more than tune vocals. It can make harmony notes by copy and pasting notes then drag them to the location you want. For example highlight a phrase and copy them paste and then drag one set up a third, WaaLaa you have a harmony. It can change notes again by dragging them up or down in pitch, or left or right in time. It can lengthen a note or shorten a note so that timing and such is affected. Say you start a tiny bit late with one note, but fall back in tempo after that, with Melodyne you can slide that one note in the time line. AS Mac said, you can take audio and export Midi with Melodyne conversion. Still as he warned it is not perfect, but another tool in the box. Jim watch the 4 videos on this page. http://www.mustardseedrecording.com/?p=1322 They come from jpetit one of the guys around here and at the studio one forum. Now this is not in Cubase, but it gives you an idea of what Melodyne can do. I do not know if Cubase has ARA yet, but a lot of this can be done as a plug in in DAWs without ARA, but it is just a step easier in those that do, like Studio one, and Sonar. On your last point, the tracks in BiaB are separate tracks, and can be dragged into the drag and drop folder, or BiaB can be put in plugin mode and then they can be moved. Here is a video from this site on drag and drop http://screencast.com/t/slGiSYAHkHJQ i hope all this helps
Last edited by Robh; 12/25/13 07:22 PM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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... I can see importing these audio files into cubase as a whole in the tempo, key, with their chord progressions and mixing several of these together and cutting, splicing, more or less orchestrating them--taking parts out, shifting from one track to another. Much as one would do in a studio setting with audio tracks. I've watched engineers bouncing from one track of mine to another trying to get a decent take.
Is this an appropriate use of the real tracks to you? Very viable, known in the trade as "Comping" - short for Making a Compilation Track. One very easy way to do this is not to try actual physical editing via cutting, pasting, etc. but instead to simply have several tracks that constitute different takes of the same instrument or vocal playing back simultaneously and use the ability to Draw Volume Envolopes on the Tracks to bring the desired one up at the right time while turning the others down. That method preserves the Time situation, does not require fiddling with cut points that may result in pops and clicks and etc. anomalies on your audio due to same, and can be easily changed at will as the project progresses, simply by revisiting and changing those Volume Envelopes as needed. However, this is not the question you originally asked. That concerned use of MIDI, which is what prompted my original response to your post. When I think about it, the only thing I can see not being able to do is changing tempos. Is that doable with audio? I doubt it. It can be done, with varying degrees of success, most of them dependent upon how much you wish to spend on the program and algorithms used to Stretch digital audio. Some work better than others, in the sense that some will leave behind what we call Digital Artifacts. However, it is indeed possible to stretch Tempo without also stretching Pitch in the digital domain. Also possible to change Pitch without changing Tempo. Gets rather tedious when in the middle of song mixing, though. Be forewarned. I find the vital flaw in BIAB is that you just can't use one song file in an entire piece. It just gets too boring.
That might be due to not using BB to the fullest extent, but don't overlook the included RealBand program, which has features as concerns the usage of Band in a Box Styles, RealInstruments and MIDI accompaniment parts that Cuhase does not. For one example, it is possible inside RealBand to highlight just one bar or several of a Band in a Box track and regenerate just that segment. RealBand also lays the entire song out along the timeline, no "choruses" etc. and lends itself to the creation of full recordings like you seem to be most interested in doing. --Mac
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See dat ole' Mac he sho 'nuff his stuff. That is the beauty of this program, lots and lots of options.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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