|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
I came across an interesting anecdote concerning the great alto sax player Ornette Coleman and his sideman tenor player Dewey Redman. Redman looked at of of Ornette's charts and asked why there were no chord symbols, and what was the overall key.
Ornette took the lead sheet away and put chords under every melody note! The chord was always the same as the note. If the note was G the chord was written simply as G and if the note was F# it was also merely an F# with no chord quality as such.
Redman just scratched his head in confusion none the wiser as often was the case in dealing with Ornette's methodology.
What interested me was the idea that a note could suggest it's own chord all on its own regardless of key.
Looking further afield I saw that in a discussion of Scriabin's music the mystic chord was the chord suggested by a note's overtone series. The chord was a dominant 13b5 I believe.
He was referring to the 'audible' overtone series which came to be referred to as the overtone scale or the Lydian Dominant scale 1, 2, 3, b5, 5, 6 b7.
Others believe the audible series to be only a plain dom 7 chord 1, 3, 5, b7,starting on the note's root which conforms to the overtone series order. while many consider only the root major third and 5th as the really strong overtones suggested by a note.
While I can't say I've heard that I've heard this psycho-acoustic phenomenon for myself I'm interested to know what others think of this as a possible source of melody reharmonization and if you've ever used it.
Could this be the origins of constant structure chords or harmonic planing you find so much today in post Bill Evans jazz?
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,608
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,608 |
http://www.jazclass.aust.com/lessons/jt/jt09.htmThis is a nice chart on the overtone series. Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869 |
Hello Alan,
I guess you've heard of George Russell's "Lydian Chromatic Concept", though I don't use all of his stuff, the idea of the Lydian being harmonically central (rather than Ionian) is one that I build all my thinking around because if you take the modal scales starting at the Lydian, they can be arranged from brighter to darker. I have never found a reason why the Ionian should be 'central' to Western music, except that our ears have been cultured to accept this. I have never found a 'theoretical' reason.
You probably know this but for others:
(important note: The keyboard and western notation is design skewed towards making the IONIAN scale the one with no alterations (the C Ionian Scale). In what follows the Lydian is central)
Lydian (try to see the augmented fourth as the 'real' or unflattened fourth) Brightest scale
Ionian ( as above and flattening this 'real' fourth) 1st alteration
Myxolydian (as above and flattening the seventh) 2nd Alteration
Dorian (as above and flattening the third) 3rd Alteration
Aeolian (as above and flattening the 6th) 4th Alteration
Phrygian (as above and flattening the 2nd) 5th Alteration
Locrian (as above and flattening the 5th) 6th Alteration. Darkest Scale
7th Alteration?
Next all notes flattened which means the whole original Lydian scale goes down a semitone. Perpetuating in this way(using equal temperament) eventually all the 84 diatonic modal scales are described.
Roots are a descending fourth/ascending P5th from each other, each step the sound of the scale is darker.
Z
Last edited by ZeroZero; 01/16/15 07:23 PM.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
Ray
Thanks for that. Good introduction to the topic for anyone new to the subject.
Z
Yes it seems to vindicate (or validate) the Lydian thesis at a very fundamental level. If as the overtone series suggests, its true to say that every note suggests a dom7 chord, then every note has an implied Lydian Major tonic on the b7. This must be what Ornette is all about. Every note is potentially at least an implicit key centre. This would explain why Ornette's improvised melodies always modulate spontaneously, nearly always use third based major and blues scales, sometimes changing more frequently than others and therefore more obviously 'chromatic' sounding as a result. It was always mostly tonal, however free that tonality actually was. the difference lay in the melody always determining the harmony rather than vice versa.
His 'Harmolodic' theory was harder to pin down but it certainly involved treating the normal instrument clef transpositions as if they didn't exist. On his 'Skies of America' he had all the instruments in the orchestra reading from the C clef creating a clash of Bb C Eb Ab and whatever else there was!!
Alan
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,869 |
Well, all this may well be true. I never really liked his sound (lol).
There are ways of thinking of music where you impose your pattern on the sound, regardless of what the laws of harmony (laws as in physical lwas) are. Yes you get a sound, and it can be effective as a kind of cultured dissonance, but a perfect fifth is still a perfect fifth and still sounds sonorous - even if you dont wat it too - therefore music is not purely subjective.
Schoenberg's serialism is a case in point, many thought at the time, that one could simply write new rules and the ears would adjust, like a Brave New World.
I don't think this is entirely true, but world music does show that there are other perspectives than traditional harmony.
Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,383
Posts791,487
Members39,872
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean