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I've always recorded with 16bit 44.1 as the file type. But I think that's because years ago it was the best my old computer and soundcard could do reasonably. Now the plan is to make BIAB/RB tracks along with guitar and vocal recording for a singer/song writer client to use as examples. The tracks would contain a click track, clients vocal recorded, clients acoustic guitar recorded and 3 - 5 BIAB or RB generated tracks. Then, as certain musicians are available we would have them stop by and essentially replace the BIAB/RB tracks with their own performances. The client might then take the individual WAV file tracks to be imported to, say, ProTools for additional recording, editing, mastering, etc... So, my main question is; what resolution (Audio File Type) setting should I begin with on the initial recordings? And, what resolution should I use when converting the tracks to individual WAV files? (before they go to the bigger, still to be determined, studio.) I don't want to do the initial work and then have the bigger studio run into limitations they are not comfortable with. I hope my questions made sense. I won't be able to check back here for replies for a few days. So, please don't assume I'm ignoring anyone.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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16 bit 44.1 audio is as good as Biab delivers Realtracks and then, only if you have audiophile version. The regular format for audio in all other versions of Biab is wma quality, WMA is more than adequate for your intended use in my opinion.
Since your Biab tracks are examples and temporary tracks to be replaced by live musicians in an actual studio environment using professional equipment, I would continue to use 16 bit, 44.1.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Record your individual tracks at 44.1k and use 24 bits.
24 bits gives you more head room when you get further down the road and more resolution as well. It's easy to do 44.1/16 for a CD from the 44.1/24 files.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Tobias, I might be wrong here but the few DAWs that I've played around with don't seem to have any issues with mixing and rendering various resolutions and formats of audio files. To my way of thinking, this adds freedom when deciding what frequency and bit depth to use for recording. As Charlie has mentioned, BIAB is 16-bit/44.1-kHz wav (CD quality). In the audiophile version of the program, these are in the original format. In the standard version of the program, the wav files have been compressed to wma. The wma files are then expanded to 16/44.1 wav by BIAB/RB when generated. The quality of this wav created from the wma is not as good as the original, non-compressed wav. It still sounds fine in the hands of someone who knows how to mix professionally. Have a listen to some of floyd jane's songs at the below link. He uses the standard edition of BIAB and his work is quality all the way. https://soundcloud.com/floydjaneWith the above in mind, I suggest that if you record your own files, use 44.1 or 48 kHz (the difference between the two is minimal) and at 24 bit or 32 bit. (For what it's worth, 16 bit would still work fine for recording too.) Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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I wavered whether to mention recording at the higher resolutions mentioned by Herb and Noel and opted to recommend the 16 bit 44.1K option for the way Tobias indicates in his post that he will use the Biab generated tracks.
As temporary foundation instruments that will be replaced by live recordings, I think he will (and needs to) focus more on clean recordings rather than additional headroom for post processing. He did not mention he plans to do any post processing in Biab or RB but just the opposite. He indicates all post processing will be done in another DAW.
For his indicated use of these Biab recordings, he should export his individual wav files with no panning or effects. Each track in his mix should be set to flat, dry and center prior to his final export of the individual tracks. There is a quick shortcut in Biab to do this to all tracks at once in the MASTER Right Click drop down menu. This would be the last step needed prior to the final export of his mixes.
RealTracks are already optimally recorded at a set resolution and bitrate. His Biab mix just needs to be mixed for best balance and level to be used as the OP indicates he plans to use these mixes.
For post processing, his critical step is to export audio that exceeds the base level white noise and is loud and clear without clipping.
That is my thought process and I certainly may be missing some elements that you guys can expound on and maybe explain benefits I'm missing.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 03/05/16 07:12 AM.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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I think once he sets the project bit rate, it'll stay throughout, so whether he is temporarily using BB tracks and then replacing with live tracks, the desired bit rate should be set from the beginning.
That's my thought process.
I'd rather convert the BB tracks originally and then record at a true higher rate than end up converting the final tracks from 16 to 24 before sending to production later..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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That makes sense Rharv. I reviewed the original post again and the Biab tracks that are not going to be used, won't go to the post processing. Tobias plans to record the replacement tracks as well. He may record in Biab or RB according to need. So all is well.
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Recording at 16 bits depth is not a crime. It is, after all, what we call CD quality and it perfectly fine from start to finish. I did it that way for years with the earlier Cakewalk DAW's. The greater bit depth of 24 bits yields more head room which becomes a nice thing to have in the mastering process. If you start with 16 bits, stay there.... don't convert to 24, because you gain absolutely nothing in the process. Converting from 24 to 16 will be done automatically when you get ready to burn the a CD Here is a link that everyone in this discussion should read.... we tend to forget sometimes why we are doing certain things....take the time to read it all. http://tweakheadz.com/16-bit-vs-24-bit-audio/
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I'd RECORD in 24 bit/44.1 for the tracks going to the next studio. The BB/RT files will be fine as they are. Most modern DAWs are 32 bit floating point so whether importing 16 or 24 files - it's not the issue perhaps it once was.
When you give the next studio the stems - individual tracks - leave the 24bit at 24bit and the 16 bit BB/RT ones they're going to replace at 16 bit. Don't sweat it. You won't need to convert or dither any individual wav files you'll be sending.
Lastly, if they need to change from 44.1 to 48.1 later for video or certain broadcast applications they'll handle that with no problem on their final mix masters so there's no need to worry about that in this situation.
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I'd RECORD in 24 bit/44.1 for the tracks going to the next studio. The BB/RT files will be fine as they are. Most modern DAWs are 32 bit floating point so whether importing 16 or 24 files - it's not the issue perhaps it once was.
When you give the next studio the stems - individual tracks - leave the 24bit at 24bit and the 16 bit BB/RT ones they're going to replace at 16 bit. Don't sweat it. You won't need to convert or dither any individual wav files you'll be sending.
Lastly, if they need to change from 44.1 to 48.1 later for video or certain broadcast applications they'll handle that with no problem on their final mix masters so there's no need to worry about that in this situation. Good point about the 32 bit floating point thing.... and you are correct... this is really not an issue one needs to be concerned with. To the OP....Just record the tracks and finish them up any way you want. It's not going to affect the final product in any noticeable way.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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The point I was trying to make was;
PGMusic products require you to set a bit rate for a project.
If you want to end up recording 24 bit somewhere along the line, you should set it at the beginning.
RB will convert the WMA or wavs to 24 bit as you generate .. and when you record your own audio tracks they will record at 24 bit.
Since this appeared to be the desired outcome, my suggestion was to set the project to 24 bit early on and not have to worry about up-converting your recorded tracks later. Matters not if the generated tracks were WMA originally .. your end result (recorded tracks) is the bit rate (I think) that was desired and suggested by others.
Much better to do this than try to up-convert finished product later (as Herb pointed out). That's route is pretty fruitless really.
And yes most use 32 bit floating rate *for the math* (during processing), not the bit rate conversion once written.
Eventually things get defined.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Wow, I was not expecting 2 pages of replies. Thanks for all the input and the very good tweekheads article too. I think I understand in a little better. Which means another question; Is it okay to mix recording bit depths/sample rates? Example; Say I have my BIAB generated tracks imported into RB2016. Some tracks are midi only, some are RealTracks, and yet some are DXi MidiSynth converted to WAV (or WMA) at the BIAB standard of 44.1 bit depth. Now, with these multitracks open in RB2016 I plug in a FocusRite USB 2i4 interface and record a few audio tracks at, say, 24/44.1. Are all of the tracks going to play back in sinc? If I render the mix to a stereo WAV file is it all going to render okay?
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Situation 2; I have a feeling my client will run into budget issues and musician commitment issues and will like and therefore want to keep some of the BIAB/RB generated tracks, (albeit with some editing) and only get actual recordings of vocals and specific instruments. From what it appears the BIAB generated tracks will be, at best, 16/44.1 WAV files (converted up from WMA) but we will want the vocals and other instruments "recorded" via Focusrite Scarlet 2i4 at, say, 24/44.1. Then, likely I will try to call a finish (or finish to my work) and render it down to stereo .CDA, . WAV and MP3. Is the render process going to go correctly having some tracks 16/44.1 and others 24/44.1 with track plug-ins and mastering plug-ins all happening at the same time?
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Normally, if you change the bit rate for a project (in PGMusic products) the program will ask to convert all the existing tracks to the new bit rate for you, to avoid problems.
That's been my experience with RB anyway.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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