|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
Hello all I'm planning on converting a concrete utility room into an office for three purposes. 1. Office 2. Small workbench to fix computers 3. Recording studio. I would like your suggestions please. The walls are double skinned breeze blocks so its very sound proof and dry but cold during winter. Heating through the winter has been a challenge. Its all concrete with a tall ceiling. I found keeping an oil radiator on constant med/low 6am-10pm warms the room up nicely but it doesn't hold the heat. I've had quotes and what's been suggested is raise the floor an inch with wood, insulate and carpet. For the walls - to fix plaster sound board 12.5mm thick but its going to make a narrow room even narrower. I need to make a decision on what to do to the walls? 1. Just paint speckled course walls + Acoustic Foam2. Plaster walls + Acoustic Foam3. Fix plaster sound board + Acoustic FoamI've wondered tonight if adding acoustic foam to the walls on their own might help with heat retention as well as provide much needed acoustic treatment? What do you think? This is my current office which I'm pulling out of to save money showing workstation size.   Utility room 5.3m length x 2m wide includes concrete shelf of 1.4m length Sink and old kitchen top/cupboards will be removed and my desk will go on the right side of the wall where you see the washing machine and tumble dryer.    
Last edited by PaulH; 03/30/16 11:08 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Paul, the acoustic foam will do very little to nothing for heat retention. What is on the other side of the block walls? Gaps between solid surfaces are what help for heat retention. This is where putting up sheetrock, gypsum board, etc. (not sure what it's called in UK) with a gap between it and the block would be helpful for thermal insulation purposes. Don't bother with the sound board if it's just the sawdust based type like they sell here in the US because it's designed to go in between relatively acoustic transparent surfaces. Here in the US it's often used between adjacent living spaces for 'stick construction'. You don't have that issue with the block walls. That is a pretty narrow space. Monitoring using your monitors will be problematic because of the room modes that will be present at fairly significant levels due to the small size. Type in your dimensions here to see what I'm talking about: http://amroc.andymel.eu/?l=200&w=390&h=350&r60=0.6 I took a guess at your height, and used 390cm (didn't include the high shelf, but you can run one of these simulations adding in the additional length. That website also gives direction on absorption amounts needed to tame modes. Modal density is pretty thick with those dimensions. I would suggest investment in some very nice monitoring headphones now and begin getting used to mixing on them in your current space. I don't see any microphones in your current room, are you doing any mic recording? These modes will also affect recordings. -Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,035
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,035 |
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
Paul, the acoustic foam will do very little to nothing for heat retention. What is on the other side of the block walls? The outer brick wall with a gap between the two walls. The room sits beneath a garage so the roof is the floor of my garage.Gaps between solid surfaces are what help for heat retention. This is where putting up sheetrock, gypsum board, etc. (not sure what it's called in UK) with a gap between it and the block would be helpful for thermal insulation purposes. Don't bother with the sound board if it's just the sawdust based type like they sell here in the US because it's designed to go in between relatively acoustic transparent surfaces. Here in the US it's often used between adjacent living spaces for 'stick construction'. You don't have that issue with the block walls. Sound board looked to me like thicker plasterboard.That is a pretty narrow space. Monitoring using your monitors will be problematic because of the room modes that will be present at fairly significant levels due to the small size. Yes and because of my L shape desk where I've drawn it in relation to the room seems the best position. Hopefully some acoustic treatment would help.Type in your dimensions here to see what I'm talking about: http://amroc.andymel.eu/?l=200&w=390&h=350&r60=0.6 I took a guess at your height, and used 390cm (didn't include the high shelf, but you can run one of these simulations adding in the additional length. That website also gives direction on absorption amounts needed to tame modes. Modal density is pretty thick with those dimensions. I would suggest investment in some very nice monitoring headphones now and begin getting used to mixing on them in your current space. I have monitoring headphones + KRK speakers not shown in the photos.I don't see any microphones in your current room, are you doing any mic recording? These modes will also affect recordings. I do have a couple of mics with an acoustic filter to go behind them.-Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
Last edited by PaulH; 03/30/16 09:12 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
That is a pretty narrow space. Monitoring using your monitors will be problematic because of the room modes that will be present at fairly significant levels due to the small size. Yes it is small but I reckon I could pull it off. The primary reason for moving office back home is to save my business money. The second is to use what I have to record again because since I've had an office across the other side of my city I've never recorded music since moving there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,342
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,342 |
You might want to investigate foam board insulation for the walls: http://www.homedepot.com/b/Building-Materials-Insulation-Rigid-Insulation/N-5yc1vZbaxxFoam board insulation is flammable and code here says we have to cover it. I have it in my basement and it really helped. If you also have to cover it you can use paneling. I used 1/2" (31.75mm) foam board and it worked. For the ceiling You might want to investigate 2"x6" (50.8mm) studs, 6" (152.4mm) fiberglass insulation covered with dry wall: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-R-19-Kraft-Faced-Insulation-Continuous-Roll-15-in-x-39-2-ft-RF40/202585898This should keep the room warmer. FWIW I would solve the heat loss problem first then attack the acoustic problem second. PS - I am assuming that all of the products that I mentioned are available in the UK.
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia.
She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
Last edited by PaulH; 03/31/16 08:27 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
Thanks MarioD, as mentioned above, I'm concerned how narrow the room will get if I pack the walls with insulation and acoustic foam or boards as well.
Last edited by PaulH; 03/31/16 08:24 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
Would I be correct in saying the cold is mostly coming from the floor?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Paul what is on the other side of the walls and floor?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
That is a pretty narrow space. Monitoring using your monitors will be problematic because of the room modes that will be present at fairly significant levels due to the small size. Yes it is small but I reckon I could pull it off. The primary reason for moving office back home is to save my business money. The second is to use what I have to record again because since I've had an office across the other side of my city I've never recorded music since moving there. Paul the physics really don't support pulling it off because of where your head is relative to many of the room modes. Do yourself a favor. Take your monitors from your current space and move them to the new room and place them where your plan shows. Take a chair and place it where you plan to sit while mixing. Play back the tones indicated by the web link I put above and rove your head in a .5m diameter and listen to the huge difference in level due to just moving your head. Start at the lowest tone and go up from there. You cannot fix those sensitivities without bass traps, which take up lots of room. Do this before you make any investment in raw construction materials and labor. Learning to monitor with headphones will be key for successful mixing in a room with these narrow dimensions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
I've looked at that weblink of yours but don't understand what I'm seeing? http://amroc.andymel.eu/?l=530&w=200&h=300&r60=0.6Bottom line is - this room is being converted into an office - but I will use it for mixing & recording also. So pulling it off has to be because that's where my computer will be. Because I have mixing headphones also I do have the best of both worlds surely?
Last edited by PaulH; 03/31/16 09:07 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,035
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,035 |
Would I be correct in saying the cold is mostly coming from the floor? Exactly what is on the other side of the three walls? Are they open to air, outside or another room, or back-filled with earth etc? Concrete has a thermal conductivity similar to glass W/(m K)
Concrete, dense 1.0 - 1.8
Glass, window 0.96
Plaster light 0.2
Cork, re-granulated 0.044
Styrofoam 0.033I think you really need to make the small space sacrifice and get something on those walls, or be prepared to keep the heater running. You'll need to do yourself a favor too with acoustics.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
I've looked at that weblink of yours but don't understand what I'm seeing? http://amroc.andymel.eu/?l=530&w=200&h=300&r60=0.6Bottom line is - this room is being converted into an office - but I will use it for mixing & recording also. So pulling it off has to be because that's where my computer will be. Because I have mixing headphones also I do have the best of both worlds surely? Paul, The display that you see, once you type in your dimensions, are the acoustic 'modes' of the room, or in other words, the natural frequencies of the room itself. Another way to think about it is these are the standing waves that will happen in the room, unique to the dimensions of the room. The issue you will experience is that your listening position is right in the middle of the most narrow dimension and nearly at the center of the longest dimension, where the standing waves will have a 'nodes' or points which will have very weak bass response. The strength of acoustic cavity modes generally weakens with larger rooms and as the modes go higher in frequency. To see nodes, look at the wikipedia article on room modes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_modesThe nodes are those points where the amplitude is near zero - for the axial modes (those that look like the top picture in the article) you have a node. On the graph in the calculator website, the primary axial modes are the 32Hz - which is the primary axial mode from the long dimension (your's won't be this exactly because the high-shelf wall is not the full 530cm to the door. That primary axial mode will be somewhere between 32 Hz and 44 Hz (44 being the result if you consider the shelf not being there) and it will not be as strong. The 57 Hz mode is the floor to ceiling mode, if your ceiling is 300cm from the floor. Your listening height while sitting is probably going to be something like 125 cm or so, correct? Since you're listening height is not right at the middle, you are actually going to hear a bit of boost at 57 Hz or nearby in frequency. But the modes between 80 and 90 Hz, the fact that there are two strong modes adjacent to each other, the first axial mode (1,0,0) of the 200 cm dimension and the 2nd axial mode (0,2,0) of the long dimension, that's going to really give you grief while monitoring and recording with a mic if you have the mic anywhere in that general vicinity of the room. Something that you could possibly do with this room is use the 'high shelf' area for a bass trap. Many ways to go about this, but I'm thinking you might have a potential boon with this area. Several things you could try: 1. Hang a heavy curtain across the opening to the shelf area, while at the same time use open-face fiberglass batting (is this mineral-wool in the UK?) lightly stacked in the space. Use the type where the fiberglass fibers are not covered with paper or plastic. The blanket will function as a sort of barrier that is moveable and the primarily axial modes of the long and floor-to ceiling dimensions will work against this barrier and even the oblique modes in the room will work against that curtain. The mineral wool will act as a general broad band absorber. 2. You can also do a bit more construction effort and make more of a door, hung at an angle and again using the whole space with mineral wool lightly stacked in there and get more absorption of the floor/ceiling and oblique modes. Have a google search look for home constructed bass traps for ideas. However this is not going to fix the issue that I believe the physics to reveal as your main issue, the primary and secondary axial modes of the 200 cm dimension at 84 and roughly double that, are going to give you grief while monitoring and somewhat while recording if your sources have significant content that low. To make it work for you, I will again suggest that you are going to have the most success learning to mix using a good set of headphones and reference recordings to compare against using those headphones. The other issue with such small dimensions is that you will need to acoustically treat the walls that make up the small dimension otherwise comb-filtering will occur in your recordings. At least treat one wall with some acoustic wedge type material designed for acoustic treatment that is 3" deep at least. http://www.acousticfields.com/comb-filtering-relate-room-acoustics/Actually, you might want to spend some time on that site above - they have some decent videos that will help explain your challenges. watch the video on that site called "Your room doesn't care what you want" to start. -Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics85,809
Posts796,444
Members39,961
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean