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Further to Mike Head's post: "On screen VU meters for you", I had asked about a "digital peak hold" meter. My intent was, to be able to "normalize" BIAB files. VideoTrack suggested a program called Orban Loudness Meter. I checked that out but it was a bit more than I needed. I've since figured out that, for the BIAB files that I need normalized, I have already converted to MP3's using Audacity, plus I have a bunch of other MP3s I've "collected" from various internet sources (some bought, some free). I came across a program called "MP3Gain" http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/that seems to do what I want. (Tutorial here: http://mp3.about.com/od/tutorials/ss/Normalize_MP3.htm#step1) If anyone else has experience with this program, I'd be interested in hearing about your results. Thanks! LLOYD S
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+1
Last edited by dga; 04/19/16 11:57 AM.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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I have gotten satisfactory results with Audacity by using light compression and then the normalize function to -1db so that the normalization results in a peak drop rather than rise. I try to keep the meter levels between 12-18 db during the tracking. At those levels, compressing at 1.5 does not cause clipping. Normalizing peaks down instead of upward appears not to raise the noise level of the recorded material to my hearing.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Thanks. Let us know how it works out. If it does what it says, it's a time saver.
I don't compress my files. Since I make backing tracks for live performance, compression diminishes the dynamic response, which may be good for a recording, but for live performance that sucks the life out of the music.
I wish I had more dynamic response for a live performance.
I remember being told by an engineer at a studio I was on the 'a list' in to compress my files to make them hotter. I forget the settings he recommended but it was very light compression.
Fortunately I made a copy of our files and compressed the copy. When I was done, I replaced the mp3s on my gig computer with the compressed files. It was awful, everything just sounded dead. Both of us noticed it, and the next day the original files went back on the work computer.
So normalization of non-compressed files is not a 'magic bullet' for me. One loud snare hit is enough to make the rest of the song lower than the 500+ other songs in my catalog.
I usually listen to them at home on my studio gear, comparing them 'by ear' with similar reference files. But since my studio gear is no the same as my stage gear, it often needs tweaking at home and then a re-try. It may be a little too loud or a little too soft on the gig gear. Usually 2 or 3 tries is all it takes, but if MP3 Gain works, it could solve that problem.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
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I use WAVEPAD from NCH.
You should really normalize the wave, and do your compression there as well before you convert to MP3.... remember that the MP3 is already in a compressed format with a lot of missing bits of data compared to the original wave. Just compare the file sizes.... something is missing.
So if at all possible, you want to avoid compressing and normalizing mp3s... not to say that I have not done that very thing because sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.
It's a really really good idea to do your compression in your mixing software (usually a DAW) because you can alter the mix drastically, throwing the mix off if you apply compression with a heavy hand in an attempt to squeeze every last drop of loudness out of the mix, with a mix that originally has a full dynamic range. A touch to smooth the peaks is OK and likely not too noticeable, but when you start to compress to raise levels and the soft passages are brought to the same level as the loud ones.... you have just throw the mix totally off with a compressor....
And then...after all that to run the NORMALIZE function on it?????
How I do it: I mix in Sonar with a very light compression in the master buss. I do my tracking in such a way, and use envelopes post tracking, so that compression isn't needed to fix it. Just a very light compression on the entire mix. Nothing that kills dynamics and nothing that raises the levels substantially. I export a wave to WAVEPAD and run the NORMALIZE function on it to a nominal level of around -6dB. This level allows for the compression of the bits without causing problems with headroom. I run my mp3 conversion from this point and there is no additional processing done to the MP3. If there are any issues with low volume, I go back to the DAW to make the changes to see what I did differently and fix the levels.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Charlie / Guitarhacker:
Do your comments refer to songs you are working on as background for recording or for "live" playing??
As per Notes' "insights", I seldom do any compressing but, like him, I'm using my MP3s for playing "live". If it's a BIAB or RB file, I'll record it using Audacity and do the normalizing there before exporting as an MP3.
If the file has just one or 2 wild spikes, I use the Effect > Amplify function to tame them. If there are many spikes (say drum hits), I go back to the original BIAB/RB file, and tweak the track(s) to better fit in the mix.
All of that being said, I don't worry too much about it, as I'm not "playing out" professionally, i.e. for $$, only for "volunteer" entertainment.
Thanks to all of you for your comments.
All valuable information.
I'll let you know how I make out with MP3Gain.
LLOYD S
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I have gotten satisfactory results with Audacity by using light compression and then the normalize function to -1db so that the normalization results in a peak drop rather than rise. I try to keep the meter levels between 12-18 db during the tracking. At those levels, compressing at 1.5 does not cause clipping. Normalizing peaks down instead of upward appears not to raise the noise level of the recorded material to my hearing. You can also do a similar procedure in Real Band. Open your master in RB save it as a different name like FILENAME_NORMALIZED. Select the entire track. Edit>Audio Effects>Gain Change> check Pre-normalize,Gain Change,Post Peak Limit set gain change to 0, Process.
This procedure cannot be reversed, so that is why you rename the file, if the result is not what you want close without saving and reopen the _normalized.seq file, always leave the original untouched, so you preserve your rough master. Practice using the Gain Change function this way, you may uncheck the pre-normalize box(which is the default) listen and look at the resultant wave form. This 1 effect has 4 handy processes. Normalization, just check the top box and bottom box, Gain Change plus or minus center box(with the top or bottom box checked or all 3 boxes checked), and lower box peak limit added to either 1 or 2 of the other options. If you want to do a very cool fade check the variable gain change box top right, and select only the end or beginning of a track and you can go from 100% volume to 0% (or 1,2, 3,etc %) over the length of the selected track. Also the variable gain change can go from 100 to 75 creating a smooth volume change in this example 25% lower volume at the end of the fade.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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Charlie / Guitarhacker:
Do your comments refer to songs you are working on as background for recording or for "live" playing??
I have created tracks that eventually made their way to stages in Church auditoriums, Ball fields, School auditoriums, homes and vehicles. I have not played 'live' with tracks but I've had my tracks played 'live' with bands and singers.
As per Notes' "insights", I seldom do any compressing but, like him, I'm using my MP3s for playing "live". If it's a BIAB or RB file, I'll record it using Audacity and do the normalizing there before exporting as an MP3.
I use this process on every track I create that makes it past the 'Erase' Button. It may change now that I've revealed that fact, but prior to today, I do not recall any comments regarding compression or normalization issues. I get comments on where a vocal sets in a mix, poor instrument panning and poor vocals and lyrics but nothing on normalization.
If the file has just one or 2 wild spikes, I use the Effect > Amplify function to tame them.
Yes, this works well for reducing spikes but not to amplify a track. I've found in my mixes, this method can also raise the noise more dramatically than compression. If your noise level is 5% on a track that's recording at 95% there should be no issue. But if your recording level is 45%, your noise level is still 5% and amplification makes the noise worse in your mix. Noise will also rise with compression but at a more proportional rate making it less noticeable than amplification I've found.
If there are many spikes (say drum hits), I go back to the original BIAB/RB file, and tweak the track(s) to better fit in the mix.
I try to take care of most spikes during mix also. I normalize as the final process. Mixing is complete. To normalize, I use compression to enlarge the waveform just enough so that when I normalize, there is a very small reduction in the waveform. For my ears, this is a very slight but very proportional adjustment. I've always considered it to be a very transparent operation.
...
I'll let you know how I make out with MP3Gain.
LLOYD S
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 04/20/16 07:14 AM.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Thanks dga and Charlie.
All good information there.
LLOYD S
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