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I have seem some people post on here that they prefer to use MIDI and virtual instrument over Real Tracks. I really like the Real Tracks because I like having the real instrument played by someone who knows how to play it over me trying to fake a part. I feel as though I'm the opnly person on the form who uses the Real Tracks. Please tell me that is not true.
Computer: Macbook Pro, 16 inch 2021
DAWs: Pro Tools, Logic, and Maschine
plays drums, percussion, bass, steel pan, keyboard,
music producer/engineer
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"Please tell me that is not true."
It's not. We use RT's live. Why? Because they sound incredible (when mixed for a particular PA). There are folks here who have released albums containing RT's.
Regards,
Bob
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There is no hate, you just happened to read some posts by folks who like midi and know how to work it that's all.
Midi is great but it requires skills and good synths, both hardware and software. If you have a midi piano part that was played by a good player on a good midi controller and then use a good piano VST to play it back, there is little difference between that and a piano RT in the feel and sound quality. But, there's a huge difference in that you can edit that piano midi note for note. Can't do that with a RT.
Do I have the skills to do that? Yes but for most of what I do I don't care because the piano RT's are excellent and plenty good enough. Editing midi is a very tedious job but if you want exact licks and parts for a track then you have three choices. Play the part yourself, hire a player to record it exactly the way you want it or start creating a midi file yourself from scratch by step editing and adding all the controllers to make it come to life. That's certainly not easy but skilled composers do it all the time.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Don't forget the super midi tracks - a bit of a hybrid that are easy to work with and yield excellent results. And for us RT's, particularly solos, are fun and satisfying to comp. Generate multiple versions and cut and splice away. It's not difficult to put together a solo that really enhances the vocal. J&B PS "Hate?" I have a hard time hating on Grammy winning musicians! 
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Everyone here knows that I use MIDI almost exclusively in my original songs. I have never said that I hate RTs. In fact I have used a few in my songs and I use them almost exclusively in customers songs. I also use them in some of my covers. Since I can not post the songs I use with RTs you never get to hear how I use them.
My rule is simple, use what is best for you and for the song.
Ps - I think more people don't like MIDI based on the very inexpensive sound source that comes with MIDI (put those MIDI sounds against RTs and RTs wins by miles or kilometers for my foreign friends). They think that is how MIDI sounds, it is not. When the free ST 2.5 was added it did awake a number of users about better sounding MIDI sources however today there are much better sounding sources than that available. Plus now with jBridge you can add those better VSTis to BiaB and RB. It's a win win situation.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I don't think I've ever heard anyone here say they "hate" the real tracks.
I use them in about 95% of the stuff I do.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I don't hate Real Tracks either. But I use MIDI much more often than I do the RTs. It's nice to have both.
I find that with a good synth, MIDI tracks sound about 95% as good as the Real Track. But the MIDI tracks have a set of advantages that for me more than make up for that difference. The MIDI tracks are thousands of times more editable than the Real Tracks. So with RTs I just sit back and listen to what someone else played, which can be fine. But with MIDI tracks I can can add better endings, add song specific licks, add kicks, clean up shots that don't work quite right, change specific notes, change chord inversions, change the instrument (examples, that clean guitar might sound better as a fuzz guitar or a Rhodes piano or a Clavinet), change specific drum instruments (change the ride cymbal to a cowbell), change the chord inversion (perhaps put the melody note on top or avoid that altogether), change the groove (example, rush or drag the up beats), and so much, much more.
The MIDI tracks allow me to play with the "toy" more and put more of my own creativeness into the music.
I find I use MIDI tracks most of the time, and if the RT is the right tool, I'll mix it in.
Neither one is right or wrong, it's personal preference.
Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I guess I'm not seeing "all the hate." The presumption is there is a lot of hate. I see preferences...but I wouldn't call that hate.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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There are some things that do sound as good or better than the real tracks.
Piano and drums, and perhaps bass sound really nice on midi with good patches and or good samples. This assumes that you know how to play and or program the midi track for those particular instruments.
Midi that doesn't sound as good include the horns, reeds, stringed instruments, and other misc instruments. Try making a midi synth with samples sound like a guitar or a steel guitar or a sax with all the inflections a live player uses.
The test is simply this: can you fool someone who has been playing that particular instrument into believing it's real and not midi?
I've never had anyone ask me who was playing "that instrument" when I used midi and samples, but I have had several people ask me who was playing the fiddle or the steel guitar on my tunes.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I think there's a bit of an over-reaction with the choice of verb used in the subject title (even the capitalization).
I personally believe that RealTracks are one of the greatest features of the program.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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I personally believe that RealTracks are one of the greatest features of the program.
The real tracks are the only reason I initially looked and and subsequently bought BiaB. Their Steel Guitar tracks closed the deal for me.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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With the exception of maybe one or two, ALL my songs are 100% RT's. I rarely use midi because I only have a very basic knowledge of how to use it. Maybe someday I'll delve more into it. Real tracks are live, sound great and are easy to slice and dice.
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With the exception of maybe one or two, ALL my songs are 100% RT's. I rarely use midi because I only have a very basic knowledge of how to use it. Maybe someday I'll delve more into it. Real tracks are live, sound great and are easy to slice and dice. +1 for RTs.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Without RTs, my music would be as mute as I am!
I'm working to get some great guitarists to work up some fabulous RTs for BIAB 2017. Stay tuned.
RTs R Us!
MarioD is the resident MIDI Guru. Maybe he can be coerced into writing some guideline tutorials for us.
@MarioD
Donny
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<...snip...> Midi that doesn't sound as good include the horns, reeds, stringed instruments, and other misc instruments. Try making a midi synth with samples sound like a guitar or a steel guitar or a sax with all the inflections a live player uses. <...> Sample playback synths have their uses, and their drawbacks. For a good sax performance you need a physical modeling synth -- some "sample-modeling" synths can get close. But using a sample based synth to recreate an instrument with many nuances of sound is like building house with only a hammer. MIDI has no sound. It all depends on the synth that you are using and the skill of the player. With a good synth and a good player the MIDI synth output will sound every bit as good as the real player, and in some circumstances, even better. MIDI instruments have been on virtually every major recording from LA, Nashville, New York and other played on your radio or streaming service since the LP was the way to listen to music. If they sounded bad, they wouldn't use them. "Real" guitars, drums, saxes, trumpets, pianos, etc. all sound bad if you have a lame instrument and/or don't know how to play it. MIDI is no exception. Important: There is nothing wrong with RTs, and I do use them when they are the best tool for the job. But their lack of the ability to edit them makes me use MIDI more often. Melodyne and a few others offer rudimentary editing capabilities of digital recordings, and some day they will definitely get better at it. Until then, I'll get more use out of MIDI. Whatever tool it takes for me to do the best job I can is the one I'll choose. And if I make a poor judgement and choose the wrong tool, I'll go back and do it again. MIDI can fool people on their own instruments. Example: I posted a synth guitar solo that I played on a gig on both the Gibson and Epiphone forums. I used a Yamaha WX5 wind MIDI controller and a Yamaha VL70-m synth. I didn't tell the guitar players that it was a synth, but asked them to evaluate my playing. I got scores of compliments, one even said it was Jeff-Beck-Like and not one guitarist asked if it was a real guitar or not. Then I came clean and told them it was me playing a synth and I just wanted to see how I was doing at playing synth guitar. I got even more compliments and some told me they were astounded that I fooled them. After coming clean, one poster said he though there was something odd about the whammy bar use, but couldn't put his finger on it. This is the kind of feedback I wanted so that I can improve my guitar emulation. I immediately worked on that aspect. If MIDI is good enough to fool scores of guitarists, it's good enough to fool the public. Another example: I was playing a pool party. The hostess was outside, and the host, a find guitarist was tending to the guests inside. And one point when I was playing synth guitar (again the wind controller) he came out to see who was sitting in on guitar. One more: I was playing in the lounge of a country club. The diners in the adjacent dining room could hear us but not see us. A trumpet player came our to hear who was playing trumpet and found me playing the synth. He was so amazed he wanted to know all about what I was using, when I told him there was another controller for brass players, he wrote down model numbers, the URL of the wind controller forum, and said he wanted one for himself. So please don't spread the falsehood that MIDI sounds bad. MIDI has no sound, but some synth modules have bad sounds, and some synth players don't know how to coax the right expression out of them. Even good players on other instruments. For example, if you play a sax like it was a piano, the best synth module in the world won't sound like a sax. Conversely if you play a piano patch like a sax, it won't sound like a piano. Not that either is bad if that is what you wanted to do. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I get rave reviews of my guitar playing. I let it ride rather than embarrass them and myself by saying "Oh, that's RTs!" Some famed guitarists have loved my tunes and even asked to use them. I won't embarrass them with too much information. lol
Donny
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In the early days of RealTracks, I was paid to do transcriptions of sax and guitar solos. I would test my work by playing in stereo with the RealTrack on one side, my MIDI on the other. While it took some effort to do things like a glissando, most people could not tell my transcription from the audio track. It is possible.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I've been around the forums a bit since my coming into this company, and have not seen any disliking toward RealTracks. Some people may feel like they get neglected, but MIDI can sound just as good as RealTracks if you have the plugins, synthesizers, and knowledge to utilize it. Band-in-a-Box's specialty is versatility. It's mostly personal preference. Talking to people on the phone though, everyone loves them. No hate seen by us.
Thanks,
Mathew
PG Music Inc.
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I've been here far longer than RealTracks and you're right. All we've ever done is discuss the many alternatives BIAB gives us. And we are grateful.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Folk guitarist, Nina Gerber, who backed the late Kate Wolf (qv) for 14 years, asked to use two of my BIAB original s for her next album. Needless to say, she was impressed and now uses BIAB for backing tracks to accompany her playing.
Don
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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