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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Just for my personal curiosity, can we get a roll call of who here reads music and who doesn't? Always been curious about that. One guy who I will not mention turns out GREAT stuff and doesn't read a note. Always wondered how people who don't read know what to enter in the chord chart.
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That's a fair question. I have no idea.
People who do not read music have been paying me for over 50 years to write out what they played.
Over on the Cakewalk SONAR forum, it has become frustrating for us readers that they have made only minimal changes to the music notation functions in the last ten years, and that's apparently because the company has determined reading and writing notation is not important to most of their user base.
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DonCarlos
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DonCarlos
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I watched the recent film about Phil Collins, he recorded with a big band jazz album. Himself "complete" music analphabet had to collaborate with musical professionals.
Conductor was šokovám his elaborate complexity of his notes which they easily played on musical notation.
In my neighborhood there are dozens of top musicians who unfortunately do not know at writing music, but have their own way to handle perfectly, their musical instrument; They know how to write great songs and play complex improvised solos.
Sorry for my bad English, but I hope you understand me :-)
P.S.:
I am ashamed, but I also had to learn English properly :-)
Karel
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I don't read a note but I hear chord changes and played upright bass for years. I can pick up my guitar and figure out chord changes for the music styles that I used to play but not for all that I now listen to  Janice I had the privilege of frequently playing and recording with a Grammy nominated musician who couldn't read and I've played in 3-4 chord bluegrass bands with guys who had graduate degrees in music. Bela Fleck doesn't read but has both composed and arranged some amazing music. Janice played clarinet in HS but hasn't read since. Re songwriting she makes up melodys in her head and figures out the chords for it on her guitar. So many ways to approach it. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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I can read, thanks to years of classical guitar training. It doesn't necessarily help me to write songs because like others I can do that by ear. But it is associated with my understanding of music theory and that is useful in developing songcraft including arrangements and communication with other players.
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eddie1261
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Janice played clarinet in HS but hasn't read since. And let me tell ya brother, you lose it FAST when you don't use it. 40 years ago I was a sight reading fool. Now I have lost the sight reading part of that description.... I am sitting here looking at a fairly complex chart and to play those minor 7th flat 5 add 9 without stopping to think about them is difficult, and I can't do it by nature anymore. One change here is so strangely voiced with suspended chords and all that I had to sit at the piano and literally "spell" out how I could play it like when a kid learning how to spell hears a word and has to sound it out. And it "walks a note" through the chord as well. Those kind of chords that sound awful when you play it and hold it but sound just great as chords that pass you from one spot to the next. Then add in the tied notes, a quarter tied to a dotted quarter and a rest after, but is it an eighth note rest or a quarter note rest, etc.... And THIS is what I love about music. To look at this thing and know that somebody, somewhere wrote this out of their own personal brain!! Put me in flatted keys with a lot of suspended 4 and chords over bass lines that are not the root note and I have to sit and think. And you can't think. You have to just play.
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I read music well and have a good grounding in theory, but having been raised by a mother who was a bluegrass picker and singer, I've played with a lot of musicians who could not read music and didn't really have a firm grasp on theory.
I think the best way to answer your question is to refer you to your inability to use a capo while the average unschooled picker can do it with ease. I feel like the thinking is completely different. IMHO, it's because you think in terms of absolute notes that make up a chord; whereas most pickers think about open chord shapes and variations off them ( read about the CAGED system for guitar). If you know a shape to hold on a stringed instrument, you don't need to think about the major triad being made up of the 1-3-5 or the notes C-E-G for the C major chord. Most pickers I know intuitively figured out the Circle of Fifths without ever taking a theory class or otherwise being told about it. The musicians who don't read music at least know the notes on their instruments and can hear what the root note of the chord is and put their chord charts together for songs that they have written, refining the basic into the more complex after the root is identified.
But maybe this isn't what you were asking.
Keith
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I can read music and sight read piano/keyboard, as well as choral scores, fairly well. I can not play by ear, but I can figure out melodies pretty easily without notation. Even then, I notate it so that I can preserve it and it makes it easier next time to play it.
I have transcribed songs by listening to them, but in the end, I want the notes in front of me. I'm one of those that it just doesn't come naturally...I have to work hard at it, and I'm not super talented, but do okay (folks tell me they enjoy the music I create). The notation may be my crutch, but until I can give up my day job and the evening honey do list, there's not a lot of extra time to learn and memorize a lot of music.
I wish I could play by ear, but I know my limitations and it's not going to stop me making music.
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eddie1261
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But maybe this isn't what you were asking. It kind of is, Keith. I have always been fascinated by players who play at a high level that don't read. Most who don't read are in a place where it just never came up for them. I doubt anybody ever said "I am not going to learn how to read music and you can't make me!!!" Formal lessons vs ear playing comes into play here. I had a teacher who beat theory into my head when I was a kid (before age 5) and that foundation has been burned into my brain to a point where it is almost a detriment. You referred to my stating that I can't use a capo and that is honestly something about myself that I think is just really dumb. I just need to put the capo on and play for a week. Boom. Done. And every time I try to do that, I find myself stumbling like a toddler learning to walk. I just can't stop looking at those fret markers. Someone suggested I try it with a blindfold so I can't see them. I may try that next. The other side of that sword is my walking into a rehearsal with sheet music and asking someone who can't read to play the song. Simple if there is a recording to refer to but when it is something nobody has ever hears, there is no reference point. And in that same scenario, if I brought something in and the singer asked to lower it a step, I would literally have to go back and chart it again in the lower key. My brain is THAT frozen. I wish I HAD someone like your mother to expose me to finger picking and bluegrass. Along with my mother's love of polka and waltz, my father with his love of the big band crooners, and my 5 year older sister who was hugely into whoever was the teen idol of the week. I missed a lot of music because I had no country influences until I was over 50. A local girl singer here who was a good friend turned me on to country from "then" until now, and it was a whole new education. Off to look into the CAGED system. Thanks for the reply!
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For decades I've heard bluegrass pickers get criticized for their use of capos. Try and do a "real" and loud and ringing bluegrass "G" run in any key but G sans capo. And try it on an old Martin with medium strings and slightly high action. Sorry for the aside! But in the spirit of complete honesty I have the same feelings when I see artists in other genres using capos. Weird. Bud
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Eddie, if it helps, I learned to play by ear as I was also coming up through the band program where reading was essential. Although I've played in more bands and orchestras than I can count, I would still rather play by ear. I'm just glad I can read, too.
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Eddie, if it helps, I learned to play by ear as I was also coming up through the band program where reading was essential. Although I've played in more bands and orchestras than I can count, I would still rather play by ear. I'm just glad I can read, too. Hey Matt, when you are playing by ear do you ever "see" the notes? Just curious. Thanks. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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I read, write AND do 'rithmetic
Bud
I'm not Matt, but Your question about seeing notes really got me to thinking.
When I play trumpet I almost always 'see' the notes. A lot of time I'm transposing in my head and it helps a lot.
Funny thing is on keys I see the notes when I read and spread them on the keyboard in my head as I look at them.
Totally different again when on guitar/bass where most of the time I'm thinking intervals from a root type of thing .. easier for me to think 'minor chord up a fourth' and know how to get there on frets .. then again I'm a very basic guitar player.
Thanks. That was fun (at least for me).
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I can read, play by ear and I know enough music theory to get me into deep dogie doo. I am fortunate that I can come up with some kind of melody line on the spot. I unfortunately can't come up with lyrics.
BobH does not read or know music but he has written some pretty good songs. When he is here he will play some weird fingering chord and I have to figure out that chord.
JonD reads and knows theory but has a problem coming up with melodies.
I get together with these two individually about once a week. Two different approaches to music that both work.
I had a friend who didn't know a thing about music. He had about 3 keyboards and a computer. Man could he play some of the most fantastic new age music.
This is one case where the ends do justify the means. Who cares how you got there as long as the end is good music.
PS - When I see a melody line I don't see the fingering on a guitar but I do see my trumpet fingerings. I haven't played trumpet in years. Weird ain't it?
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Trumpet; it's IN ya!
When you got it ya got it
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I can't read music ... I just have the ability to listen and play, as well as coming up with my own stuff. I am sure, I'm not alone there....
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I read. I was taught reading, theory, arranging, etc., in school. And I thank my teachers to this day. I think people who don't read and don't know theory are doing it the hard way.
Insights and incites by Notes
Last edited by Notes Norton; 01/09/17 03:36 PM.
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I often see trumpet fingerings on melody lines as well. I agree, weird, huh?!?
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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I read, write AND do 'rithmetic
Bud
I'm not Matt, but Your question about seeing notes really got me to thinking.
When I play trumpet I almost always 'see' the notes. A lot of time I'm transposing in my head and it helps a lot.
Funny thing is on keys I see the notes when I read and spread them on the keyboard in my head as I look at them.
Totally different again when on guitar/bass where most of the time I'm thinking intervals from a root type of thing .. easier for me to think 'minor chord up a fourth' and know how to get there on frets .. then again I'm a very basic guitar player.
Thanks. That was fun (at least for me). Fascinating! Thanks for weighing in. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Trumpet player and public school band director here. Master's in music as well. As such, reading is just part of the gig. I actually started out on Suzuki piano, so playing by ear came first. Playing by ear and improvising come naturally for me, but reading is indispensable for effective rehearsal communication, etc.
My weekend gig is playing drums and singing in a rock band with a lead singer/primary songwriter who doesn't read a lick and a rhythm section that does. We make it work and love doing it!
-Mark
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New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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