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I'm curious all of your thoughts are on keeping up with the current meanings of words.
It used to take a fair amount of time for words to change meaning; but that has been accelerating for some time...now I feel even more so with the internet/social media.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I try not to write lyrics using the slang and vernacular as it tends to become "dated" rather quickly. Also, slang terms can be rather localized in some cases so again, a good reason not the use them writing.
That's my personal preference. I seem to recall quite a few songs that did use such things.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I try not to write lyrics using the slang and vernacular as it tends to become "dated" rather quickly. I agree, depending on the genre of music. Obviously some rely heavily on the use of ultra-current or even inventive wording as part of the appeal. However, I'm with you. I try to place it more to the "timeless" side of lyrics when possible. Also, slang terms can be rather localized in some cases so again, a good reason not the use them writing. Great point. Especially with the internet, and now anyone having a global reach! I mean it more from the perspective of a danger of writing thinking you are saying one thing and it could mean something VERY different.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I mean it more from the perspective of a danger of writing thinking you are saying one thing and it could mean something VERY different.
I think that would be a very real issue when writing songs for a language other than your own if you are not fluent in the language. Idioms and phrases in other languages can be very tricky. Perfect example: Practically everyone remembers the milk commercials where the folks, including a beautiful young woman drinks a glass of milk and has a "milk mustache".....well....The milk industry ran into a huge faux pas with their "GOT MILK?" campaign. It worked really fine in English.... but when they translated it into Spanish, they didn't bother to get a Spanish speaking native to check it. Unfortunately for the milk industry what they thought was asking "Got Milk?" was actually asking... "Are you lactating" and it was highly offensive to the Spanish speaking world, especially the women. That aside, you also run the risk of having your audience fail to comprehand what might be a key part of your lyric if that idiom is completely foreign to the listener. Kinda like not understanding the punchline to a joke.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Given that our songs are heard only by a few forum folks, family and friends I never think about how topical the lingo might be. And concern over this would imply that the song has "legs" which I don't think will ever happen with our transient efforts. Self deprecating? Yeah, but based on our reality of writing/recording a song just for the fun of it, throwing it on the forum and moving on to await the next relatively rare appearance of the Muse. 
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Echoing everyone above, it's something to be aware of and perhaps we should ponder a bit after the song is written, looking at those phrases to see if they are dated or fads. "XXX rules!" is something I edited out recently. I had to rewrite that whole part, but better that than be passe', in the song's context.
Something I also consider, is gender and sexual preference. In a particular song's context is it important?; "..hmmm...let me think about that..." I find myself leaning masculine all the time with heroes and characters, when in a particular song, let the women have some attention, too!
If I write a song more socially aimed, I try to be inclusive, avoiding anything religious, gender, sexual orientation, the same way I would never make racial slurs.
Of course, there are no rules and it's up to the song writer. Bravery is required for honesty sometimes.
Andy
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Bud, in my opinion, probably nailed it. Just because we make something available to the world, doesn't mean the world is taking the time to listen...and really isn't typically.  Therefore, probably not much of an issue.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Makes me think about the Jim Stafford song, " My Girl, Bill". It surely shows how important the comma can be in the English language. I remember falling out of my seat laughing when the song got to the end. I didn't know where it was going until that point, and considering the time frame it came out, well... (not that there's anything wrong with that - which itself is a Seinfeld line that you will either get or not, depending upon if you watched Seinfeld).
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<< I mean it more from the perspective of a danger of writing thinking you are saying one thing and it could mean something VERY different. >>
An obvious danger sign is when I see a song along with a comment of "no offense intended. This is tongue in cheek and meant to be funny." type disclaimer added. If you write something and feel the need to add a disclaimer, you have not written a good work. Your job is not finished and more work needs to be done. Write for clarity. If something can be interpreted wrong. It will be. If a phrase is a double edged sword, someone will feel as if they have been cut by your words.
I've started reading my posts (and lyrics) as if they were tweets. Nothing takes down smart people who should know better than an ill-timed or poorly worded tweet.
Charlie
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I agree with most of what has been said.
On the other hand I sometimes write songs that have little relationship with "modern, current and the like".
I like to write blues songs using expressions that would only have been generally understood, say back in the 1930's. Only those people who are well versed in the history of blues lyrics would likely understand the actual meaning of some of the phrases. So...the target listener, would be someone who like this style and era of blues music. I also use expressions that are typical of speech patterns common in southern black culture. Some of those expressions are in fact easy to understand as far as the words and their meaning go, but may not be recognizable as a "southern black culture common expression".
Every group of people has words that identify them as belong to that group. "Y'all come on over" as opposed to "yous guys" for example. So...the use of some words would make certain groups of folks feel comfortable.
As most forums are available to almost all countries and cultures the probability of offending someone is pretty high no matter how careful one is in word choice.
The fact that some expression written in one language and then translated to another is offensive (where no offense was meant)is the fault of the translator. Too expect all expressions, especially idiomatic expressions to directly translate from one language to another indicates a serious lack of understanding of language in general.
As this forum is well controlled for obviously offensive language, in English at least, we don't have to deal with the issue very much. A good thing in my opinion.
Personally, I am rarely offended by what people sing or talk about. There are exceptions.
I also am not put off by the use of idiomatic expressions that I don't know the meaning off. If the song interest me I will go try to find out what the expressions really mean.
I try not to write songs that I know will offend people. I don't want to make people unhappy on purpose. Sometimes that is not possible. Sometimes I write protest songs about the effects of war and I am sure some would find those songs uncomfortable to listen to. Not everything in life is pleasant.
We all have one great freedom, we can turn things off!
Cheers,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Planobilly, I do understand what you are saying. I'm not talking about being overly sensitive and PC. I'm talking about what our responsibility as writers is to know what words current meaning is. An over-used example would be someone writing a song today with lyrics like "I'm gay! I'm gay! I'm as gay as a man can be!" and thinking the term "gay" to mean happy. Yes, it can mean that. There is also another meaning of it today. Not there's anything wrong with that. (jford...I LOVE Seinfeld!) I'm not the lyric police by a LONG shot. Just curious people's thoughts on if we should be aware of things like that? Herb's example was fantastic. In THAT case, they REALLY should have known FIRST! Here, I get, probably not as urgent I'm not just playing hypothetical. I've witnessed a few things here that made me wonder "is THAT what they really meant? Nah...really?" Life is good. This isn't a huge deal by any means. Just a conversation I thought fun to have
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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One trend I've noticed is the ever increasing use of coarse, vulgar words in songs played on radio. Labels use to distribute "radio mixes" where vulgarity was either bleeped or scrambled. Letting something slip through would get an employee fired and a station fined or license pulled. It seems strange to me that a radio station chain can have enough influence for artists to modify songs to mention a "radio brand" but not enough respect for their fans to do the same.
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I kind of like hearing songs that have 'dated' lyrics in them. It brings you back to that period of time a little bit, good for reminiscing.
Example I'm thinking of at the moment is Aerosmith with "Love in an Elevator" from the 80s.
"She said 'I'll show you how to fax
In the mail room, honey'."
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
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I think that it "should be" self evident that everyone has the responsibility to understand the meaning of words and expressions they use in songs or any form of communication for that matter. The rapidly changing nature of the meaning of some words makes the job more difficult for sure. While there may be "no excuse for not knowing something is illegal" LOL we should not be too hard on someone for using a word that could be construed to have more that one meaning.
There should be an equally important responsibility to consider the environment where those songs are released. It is inappropriate to release vulgar and sexually orientated songs for example here on PG Music. It is also inappropriate to release the type of music we generate here on some "gangster rap" site.
There may exist "legal freedom of speech" but one can not say anything they want in any environment they choose.
I also think that everyone reading or hearing the words in a song has some responsibility to understand their meaning, and the context in which they were written.
In general, for songs to have a wider acceptance, a certain adherence to using words that are widely understood can be important.
There are also many convoluted but interesting ways to express some idea. The line from a Dylan Thomas poem comes to mind. "The force that through the green fuze drives the flower" I for one do not want to be relegated to only the most common expressions.
Music/songs has always been a very important form of communication. The fact that a song has or does not have a wide distribution does not make it any less important to the people who get to listen to it.
Many people on this site have created songs that made my life better. Many were beautiful and some were humorous. All had the effect of enriching my life.
Here is a change in word meaning I just learned.
“Tool” used to mean something you dug up the garden with. Today, it also means someone who’s not intelligent enough to realize they are being used or taken advantage of.
Who would have thunk it...lol
Sorry for wandering around so much on this thread. The use of words always get my attention.
Cheers,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Really good fodder...I love this forum and this thread is a good example of why. Thank you, Hear To Learn, for starting it. It's good, for me at least, to push the gray-matter a little and think and sort and stew on things.
Steve, exactly. Songs put me right in the place and time where I first heard them. Freshman at Univ of Wyoming where my best friend from high school brought in an album from a "who's that?" band. Their songs changed the landscape of the music industry. 5 years later he was working with them at Columbia Records.
A younger person today might not get references to '68 - 1975, disco, "Give peace a chance," or have the visual of the "Keep on Trucking" guy and his big shoe. Good Times vans. But I do.
Writing a whole song now using jargon from then is an interesting idea...unique. Most of my folk music crowd are in or near my age and would get it and see the humor and live in those moments with me.
I was writing a song about my former kidney stone, but "1975" might be a more interesting writing experiment. Though, "Once I had a pearl, deep inside of me.." is pretty attractive.
Later, dude...gotta book.
Andy
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Just a quick thought here.
I think the vernacular of a song has a lot to do with the culture of your intended/target audience. When I listen to some of of the contemporary R&B, there are words and phrases that make no sense to me if applied in their common definition but the audience fro whom the song is intended knows exactly what is meant. Each social/demographic group uses idioms that are normal and common to them but may not may make sense to folks of a different group.
If you think most of your target audience will easily understand your lyric, you're good to go. It's my opinion that knowing your audience is equally as important as your technical knowledge of writing a lyric.
Good luck to everyone with their music!
Alan
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I kind of like hearing songs that have 'dated' lyrics in them. It brings you back to that period of time a little bit, good for reminiscing.
Example I'm thinking of at the moment is Aerosmith with "Love in an Elevator" from the 80s.
"She said 'I'll show you how to fax
In the mail room, honey'." I do too. That's not at all what I'm talking about. To me, I love the feeling you can get from a song that brings you back to a time or place. There are even songs that I haven't heard, or weren't even alive for that can do that for me. I heard a song from the 50's or 60's and feel like, "man, that sounds like such a great time" and picture being there. What I am talking about is using dated terms in a song that is written today and NOT being ironic or trying to sound like you were from a specific time. As an example, I saw briefly a song in the showcase that looks like it is paying tribute to the Beach Boys. I haven't listened to it yet, but wouldn't be surprised if it used terminology/lyrics from that area. That would make perfect sense to me...to the point of I would be surprised if it DIDN'T have those elements. I'm talking about something along these lines... "back in the day" a "Hot wife" would mean a married woman who was above warm. At some point "hot" meant "attractive." So, if someone said "She's a hot wife" it meant so was an attractive, married woman. To a large number of people, today "Hot Wife" is a married woman who is allowed to have relationships with other men! So...if you are writing a song today, unaware of the current meaning of the word, writing a song about your "Hot wife" may get some unexpected reactions. Posting it on these forums would just be odd then. I've seen pretty close to this type of situation happen on here several times. I don't believe it was the writer's intent on most of them. I'm going to emphasize again, "most" of them. I hope that clarifies it without specifically calling the songs out. Sometimes I think we just need to be a bit more aware of this kind of thing. Just my opinion. Now I'm going to have a listen to "Love in an Elevator." I have always loved the drumming in that song. The toms...on my, the tom sound! I love that!
Last edited by HearToLearn; 05/08/17 01:30 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I am still trying to figure out what itchin like a man in a fuzzy tree means.
Once I get that down, I will move on to 2017.
I think some of the lyrics on the radio today are about nasty sex, but I can't quite tell for sure. It's kind of vague.
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I think some of the lyrics on the radio today are about nasty sex, but I can't quite tell for sure. It's kind of vague. I think some of the Rolling Stones lyrics from the 1960's/1970's were about nasty sex, but I can't quite tell for sure. It's kind of vague.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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Hint: Rock & Roll is ALL about nasty sex.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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