|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105
Apprentice
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105 |
Hey, all. I've been playing jazz piano for years and I bought the jazz master class program. I think I might have had something wrong for years. In lesson seven about chord voicings, the teacher plays chords in the left hand while improvising in the right, which is something I've always wanted to learn how to do. He's using inversions and so the root isn't necessarily the lowest note. Whenever I play I've always got the root as the lowest note, sometimes with open voicings and I usually catch it with the pedal. But this has trapped me playing ballads, which I'm really sick of. This is all for solo piano, no other instruments. Have I had this wrong for years? Like if I play a G7 in the left hand as FGBD (from bottom to top) it still counts as a G7 chord? And I can also play rootless voicings and the root is implied? If this is what I've been doing wrong, this will completely transform my playing. Rookie doug 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,418
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,418 |
The answer is yes it is still a G7 chord. When the root of the chord is not the bass note the chord could be written with the bass note after a forward slash. For your G7 example it could be written G7/F.
This would be call an inversion. G7 normally would be written G-B-D-F. A first inversion would be written B-D-F-G, a second inversion is D-F-G-B, etc. The first and second inversion could be written G7/B and G7/D.
The bottom line is the notes in a chord determine the chord name, not the bass note.
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105 |
This will completely transform my playing, then. If I don't need root note way down in the left hand (on piano) then I'm free to use the voicings I know to improvise! Woohoo!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
You've been mostly right - let's just get that out there in the open. Inversions are often used in passing chords, but in every modern style of music, jazz included, for piano-only playing or accompaniment, the majority of left hand action will still have the root of the chord as the lowest note. Inversions; as with any other chord choice tool; serve to keep things interesting, but if all you have is non-root inversions in the left hand, things can get outright meandering and boring because part of the way we hear always frames higher notes to the root of the chord; it's what gets our hearing 'home'. Resolution to the root is always needed to some extent. Have you ever studied the concept of 'pedal point' harmony? This is where there is emphasis on a note that is common to the family of chords in a song (though dissonant to a minority of the chords); very often in the bass register; or left hand. You can put the pedal up higher, but it's almost always the lowest note. Key however, is that there is almost always resolution and tension release to the key chord with lowest note root combination. Great wikipedia article on it here across all kinds of music. I typically use it in instrumental rock compositions. It can give an epic-ness (if that is a word) to a chugging song. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedal_point
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,901
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,901 |
Doug, Like you, I'm a keyboard player. When I'm playing, there are two principles that I keep in mind... 1. If a bass line is being played by a friend on bass guitar or by Band In A Box, there is no need for me to worry about playing any bass at all. In fact, if I did play bass, it is more than likely that I will create bass-note conflicts with the bass line being played. Such low frequency interactions are uncomfortable for the listener. - For example: while C and E played together in the middle octave range (say above 200 Hz) sound fine, when they are played together as low-end bass, it doesn't usually work. Dissonant intervals in the bass are even worse!
2. If there is no bass-line provided, then my playing provides that. With the above in mind, while I don't have to jump down to specific bass notes all the time, it is necessary to keep bass movement in mind. The principle I always use is... If the bass note is a dissonace (any interval other than those below)... - perfect octave
- perfect 5th
- major or minor 3rd or 6th
...then that bass note would need to resolve by a step of either a tone or a semitone (usually by a step downwards). With this in mind, if I played your example of FGBD for a G7 chord in the middle octave of the piano, my next chord would have the lowest note E or Eb (this could be EGC, EbGC, EAC, EGB, etc.).
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
^^those are good rules to follow, particularly playing in a band with a bass player; you can often put your left hand behind your back.
Noel's rules about where the next note should be are good also if you are trying to establish a natural movement of the bassline.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 105 |
Okay. Thanks everyone. I guess my classical upbringing has confused me about all of this. But this will help out a lot and actually get me improvising.
Doogiet
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,901
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,901 |
Doug,
Don't be afraid to trust your ear. If it sounds right, it's ok.
All the best with your adventure!
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,086
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,086 |
Good advice here.
A couple more comments, admittedly from a non-pianist:
There is nothing wrong with open voicing. Particularly in free jazz, it's sometimes easier to find a place for a solo over open-voiced chords.
Pianists often leave out not only the bass (if there is a bass player) but often can safely leave out some of the other tones, especially the fifth. The bassist will probably cover that, too, be it sharp, flat, or perfect. Guitarists leave out some chord tones all the time.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591 |
The answer is yes it is still a G7 chord. When the root of the chord is not the bass note the chord could be written with the bass note after a forward slash. For your G7 example it could be written G7/F.
This would be call an inversion. G7 normally would be written G-B-D-F. A first inversion would be written B-D-F-G, a second inversion is D-F-G-B, etc. The first and second inversion could be written G7/B and G7/D.
The bottom line is the notes in a chord determine the chord name, not the bass note. Thx, Mario. I've always wondered what those notations meant. Now I know. I notice you play the flat 7 in order, after the 5. This may be a quirky comment, but I'll make it anyway: I was lucky to have been pointed in the right direction. First, I learnd to read melody staffs. Getting serious about pop (country) years later I committed the twelve major 135 chords to memory. Using home made backing tracks on a multi track portable cassette recorder, committed those twelve keys to absolute memory by playing along with those 12 backups on the piano. Then, I found Band in a Box. Then I tackled the progressions, the 1-4-5. I recall what a breakthrough for me it was when I realized I could find the 1-4-5 by simply raising the 3 from the chord a half step. Now, wouldn't you think that would have been obvious to a student? No, for years, I counted out the rarely used progressions on my fingers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,541
Posts780,725
Members39,686
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean