PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic Civil Discussion Possible on Younger Artists?

I noticed something on the forums that I'm not sure a civil discussion could be had about. It's probably risky; but in my opinion possibly needed.

Where this is coming from was kind of an odd place. I was driving yesterday and listed to Ed Sheeran's "Perfect" and "Evergreen." I would say neither is a without it's flaws (please don't go there on the name) but my thoughts were this..."I really can't imagine people of almost any age, not thinking these are decent songs."

I also listened to "When I was your Man" by Bruno Mars. Also, along those lines.

These songs, in many ways sound like older songs There are so many older influences in them. To me, "Perfect" sort of has that "Wonderful Tonight" kind of thing going on.

They don't sound overly produced, there's no rap in them, so some pretty basic elements...and very relatable subjects.

I know I've seen many comments about not liking this artist or that artist, and what I've mostly seen is, it's current artists. Current here being within the last 10-15 years.

I know some here have the attitude of learn all you can; and are very open to listening. I know others are very closed to that. Neither is right or wrong in my opinion; until you feel the need to start making negative comments. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everyone is allowed to express that opinion. But, I am curious what it serves at times.

I would like to think that people can come here in hopes of getting help in creating the music they want to with these great products.

If I were new here, or of a different personality, I don't know how comfortable I would feel expressing what I am hoping to accomplish with many of these comments having been made.

Not pissed. Not trying to come across judgmental. Just thinking out loud. That can be dangerous! lol

If you will excuse me. I have to walk back thru this mine field to go to lunch.

These songs, in many ways sound like older songs There are so many older influences in them.


Its the circle of life'

I have a mate, who is very close when he writes a song, in a style he says we will hear in the charts shortly.

When asked he said, aww cmon look at the history of music the circle.

"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." I forget who said that.

I've listened to a mixture of new and old music all my life. But for some reason it has tended to center around more rootsy genres rather than pop. I could offer a longish list of new artists that we regularly listen to today...none of them are pop stars but they are popular in their respective genres and they are young.

Pop exceptions for us would include Lady Gaga, Amy Winehouse and Joss Stone amongst others.

I will kid about some genres but I try not to be dismissive of them. If they wash the dust from one's soul all is good.

Bud

Bud "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." .

Nice one " MUSIC HAS NO BARRIERS ".

And I will never bring you any in a serious way.

Amy, Bruno mars, wee ed cmon. l.o.l.

I'd be supportive of a BIAB forum just for modern music that specifically disallows any crapping on said music or lamenting about all the "back in the day" stuff. I also think this would benefit PGM greatly because this standard commentary around here, admittedly with some notable exceptions, feels very much like a good ol boys music club and that is quite off putting to younger BIAB users.

And a few good ole girls?

Janice

And the operational definition of modern music is.....

Bud

I've discovered not many current artists are consistent. Even in their CD releases song selection quality varies, the mixing is muddy but each track is mastered as loud as they can make it. A lot of music is thrown out for consumption.

After sounding so negative I must admit I'm surprised at how often I run across material I like. My library pays for five MP3 downloads each week from the Sony music catalog. I spend about half a day combing through new releases each week and I never have trouble finding five songs to download. Recent downloads include music by Bobby McFerin, Spango, The Church, Frumpy, Joe Simon, Luke Combs, JD McPherson, Bob Schneider, Old Crow Medicine Show, Wade Bowan, Jason Boland and Dana Fuchs to name a few. Yes I know not all are new artists but all the songs are new to me.

Some producers are going against the grain by not fighting the loudness war but everyone plays that game at least some of the time. I would say about half the songs on Luke Comb's new CD are mastered as loud as they can be.

So to me, the discussion is not so much about the merits of any particular artist as much as it is about production values and song management.

Charlie Puth's Voicenotes is on a continuous loop here.

Only interrupted occasionally by Tyminski's Southern Gothic.

And RaeLynn's WildHorse.

I like all sorts of music. Old, new...most anything. There is just so much to be learned...

Caaron,

It will take a book to address your observations. So I wrote a book.

I think two streams of thought are going on here, and I will try and separate them. There is a difference between "young artists" and "creative artists" and what I call "manufactured industry music."

These different sets of people (or songs) are getting jumbled up.

Before I start, let me say I TEACH songwriting, production and even Band-in-a-Box to young people as young as 12, from different ethnic backgrounds.

I do not think any of them would feel unwelcome here. This forum is a very welcoming place for all musical styles, I have found, even if some people go off on the "life was better back when..." speeches that all people go on from time to time.

But aside from that, this is the MOST accepting place I have ever seen. In fact, this place is PRICELESS in terms of generosity and acceptance. Among people posting songs, I see NO semblance of any good old boy network--just look at the wide range of songs and the time being taken to comment from other people with different styles from all over the world. Where else would you find that?

To suggest (not that you have) that the forum is not inclusive would be divisive and toxic, and THAT is a theme I am kind of getting tired of actually. It's just not true. This is a VERY open place if you look at other forums where some people have clearly established themselves as King. But there is no King around here that I can tell, and that is a thing to be thankful for. We have had our disagreements (and I have been a worst offender at times become I am so hot-headed) but we all seem to work it out in the end.

In order to address your theme in a specific, personalized way, I will have to include some life history, so that once I say this I will not have to come back with more. In other words, everything I would ever want to say on the topic is in here, from my own life experience as a person who has worked across age groups from the age of 15, when I was recruited to be the guitarist in a country band. Within six months I was also doing funk.

I for one admire new artists and I study them as part of a severe discipline. It takes many hours a day.

Last week I posted something I thought was cool I got from another guy--the charts to the top country songs and the "best songs of the year." I am studying these. I don't know if anyone looked at it because there are zero comments but the charts and song structures and arrangements are worth careful study and analysis. Those people clearly know what they are doing. I spend 2-3 hours a day studying the modern stuff and the Billboard 100. Charts again:

http://www.beairdmusicgroup.com/blog/

The people I play with, write with and collaborate with range from 14 years of age to 75 years of age. The music I collaborate on ranges from country to hip hop to extreme electronica to full out rock and roll. I have proudly been the token white guy in a black gospel, jazz fusion funk band. You have to pay attention in that world. There are no charts. Songs modulate at least five times every time.

Today I have EXACTLY the same mentality and am surrounded by the same eclectic melange of artists as when I was 18. And some are VERY odd. But I love them.

I study the new stuff out on Spotify EVERY DAY.

I think there are some amazing young artists out there, doing amazing things. When I go on SongTradr I am dumbfounded by the level of talent among the independent community.

Have some of the stars done amazing songs? Of course. Has Bruno Mars written some catchy as all get out songs? Heck yeah. What about top of the charts country stars. Heck yeah to that too. I am studying the chart and arrangement to Meant to Be even as we speak (Bebe Rexha/Flordia Georgia Line.) All of this stuff might come out differently at the end of my own funnel but I still study it. (My latest post Driving Out of Winslow uses a lot of tricks I learned by studying those top country charts and arrangements, especially the breakdown chorus.)

So, yes, there is some AMAZING TALENT among people of all ages, and I believe this is a great time to be alive as a musician and artist. You can do whatever you want.

HOWEVER, there is SOME music in the mass produced cookie-cutter algorithm driven market that does not appeal to me.

I understand what they are doing though--they are trying to make money and they have to produce some stuff that is risk free in order to keep the lights on. I get it.

Sometimes, when people are pointing us to lists on YouTube to get a rise out of us, so to speak, they only post the worst of the worst as examples. But again, someone's worst of the worst might be another one's favorite--I don't mind. If a businesswoman at Sony is doing what she has to do to keep the lights on great. But that does not mean I have to jump up and clap if it is not my cup of tea.

Long and rambling, yeah, I guess, but the point is, my ENTIRE LIFE I have worked with, jammed with and made music with people from 12-80, and of every race, ethnic group and background. And that has never changed. I myself am an amalgamation of bloodlines, part Portuguese, part Italian (or mixed Mediterranean of some sort), part Welsh, part English, part Native American, and I am sure there is some African American in there too because my black musician friends have told me a million times:

"Somebody in your family was black, Daveed, that's a fact."

My current list of artists I like ranges from 12 to about 80.

I think it gets confusing when you lump "those old young folks" into "mass market industry." They are not the same thing.

I have always been a fan of talented young people.

I have never really been a big fan of mass market stuff, but that is not a judgment call, it just has never been my cup of tea.

Here is something you might enjoy if you like goosebump vocals.

https://soundcloud.com/davidsfilmmusic/a-prayer-for-america


FAMILY OF SOUL

with DJ Coles, David Snyder
and the Family of Soul Band and Choir

First, the way I see it is that anyone who wants to post new music has been and is always welcome to post it any time they want to in the Users Showcase. Nobody's going to tell them they think their music sucks because it sounds new. Anyone who actually posts music and even the lurkers know that - it's obvious. So anyone thinking there should be more "new"music - POST SOME.

Second, when I want to check out a new product that has a board "off topic" is NOT where I look to find out how people feel about and use the product. It's the last place I'd go. I'd be looking at the showcase, new users, and the product forum threads.

Third, I don't get the big deal and why this topic keeps coming up. We keep circling the same tree. There are always going to be people who say they can't stand so and so - who cares - if you like so and so what difference does it make - none - I'm sure I don't like some artists they like old or new.

Let's get real. Start all the new topics, threads and forums you want and if somebody feels like spouting their opinion they are going to do it. Younger people have grown up on social media - they know this. Anybody who hasn't lived off the grid for the past twenty years knows this and is used to it. A civil discusssion is what we already have here. Nobody is cursing anybody out or calling anyone names for liking or not liking any artist or type of music.

Give people here a little credit. We don't need any more eggshells to walk on. This is one of the most civil forums out there. Sure, I'd like if everyone agreed with my taste but they don't. My closest friends from childhood and my husband likes artists I don't.

If someone not agreeing with someone else's opinion on musical taste bothers a person that much perhaps a little therapy is in order.

I'm going to go work on a song.

God Bless you Josie.

And Amen.

Do me a favor and check out Prayer for America and tell me (one vocalist to another) if you get goosebumps when DJ hits:

"..Finally break these chains."

I got goosebumps the first time I heard him do it and every time since.

One of our favorite younger groups is Lake Street Dive. They are clever writers/arrangers, great singers, great musicians and very visual.

Lake Street Dive

Another has already been mentioned by floyd (who turned us on to both of these) is Tyminski. A great case of re-inventing yourself and moving to a modern sound. Dan Tyminski was George Clooney's singing voice in Oh Brother, Where Are Thou, was in traditional bluegrass bands, played for years with Alison Krauss and Union Station and now has ended up on The Late Show with a new career with a modern sound.

Tyminski

Hi

I have to agree with Jim Fogel on this for me quality of production and mix is so important to my enjoymeni.
I remember when all this loud over recorded music started back in the days of Phil Spector’s Wall of Sound I hated it then, played havoc with my hi fi and SME arm and high compliance magnetic Cartridge and you could see the record turning grey with wear after a few plays.
A lot of today’s music with its hot tracks then mastered right up to the top on the master really turn me off.
As for music today, a lot is still very good, personally I don’t like rap (but a lot do)
Yet I am still quite happy with the spoken word to music, as in say like The Shifting Whispering Sands (Jim Reeves)
I love Wagner (The Ring) . Pink Floyde. a whole host of country and 50s on ward pop.
I guess at the end of the day to most of us its down to personal taste and what we have heard over the years and to a certain extent your culture that you have grown up in and live in.
Horses for courses methinks.
But for me the technical quality (production) must be good.
Just my thoughts.
Mike

You said A LOT there in few words. Right on!

I totally get people joking around too. Been there myself; and will be again.

For me, it's not about what's popular or not popular. How many people like something is irrelevant to me; as far as being respectful.

I hope that makes sense.

I hear ya. Exploration does bring it's rewards...and there is SO much to choose from.



I know what you mean. I, many times, fall asleep to music using headphones. Luke Combs is an offender. Another one that "wakes me" is a lot of Jake Owens music. It's fine for certain things for me, but in with other songs is a bit too much.



We all have artists we like and those we don't. I just don't think it helps the forum in most circumstances to just rail against a genre just because you don't like it. I haven't really seen you an offender of this.

I do understand what you are saying about a forum for that. I, to some extent, think this would keep dividing much like the music industry. Where would it end? So many sub-genres now. We are a music nation divided! lol

I have no doubt you do. It shows up in your work and discussion. That always impresses me. I know you don't like everything you hear, and no one does. But you are always respectful. THAT is what I'm talking about.

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this attitude!

Now, let's say you didn't. I'm totally ok with that too. It's more the people that feel the need to let people know that any chance they get.

Great post, and even better picture! That's AWESOME!

I hadn't really considered that some may be taking my post as I think this forum isn't tolerant? That is NOT what I am saying. I would agree there is so much good going on. I wouldn't take the time to post anything if I didn't feel that way.

That being said, so much of what you posted makes a lot of sense. In a world of so much division right now, I think a place like this is so needed for musicians. I'm not a member of other forums; but have been to a few to see what goes on. This is both civil and tolerant.

I was just hoping to see a bit more of the respecting of genres side.