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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 21
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I apologize up front for asking a question that has probably been asked/answered multiple times, but after searching the forums, reading the DOCs, and watching many of the PG videos, I'm still not sure if I have Band in a Box 2019 64 Bit configured optimally for my Windows 10 setup.
In a nutshell, I'm trying to determine the best MIDI/Audio settings for a basic 64 bit install running on Windows 10. I have it running and playing through my external speakers, but some of the instrument sounds are still pretty bad (IMHO). The trumpet and sax sounds are a couple that immediately come to mind. Anyway, it's possible I have it configured properly and this is the best I can do, but I sure would like some confirmation. What make me suspicious that it is still not setup up properly is that I have tried various configurations, even some that I later read were not supposed to work or be optimal, but the output sounded the same as my current settings. In other words my previous incorrect choices sounded as good (or bad) as my current setup, so is my current setup actually correct?
At any rate, here's what I currently have selected under the MIDI/Audio Drivers setup dialog. The underlined items are my current selections:
MIDI Input Driver: No Midi/Sound input
MIDI Output Driver: Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth
Synthesizer / Sound Card: General MIDI Instrument Misc.
Use VSTi/DXi Synth [checked]
Route MIDI Thru to MIDI driver [checked]
DXi Synth Settings[VSTSynthFont64] is selected
GM2 Support (128 Extra Patches) No GM2 Support - 128 patches only is selected
Audio Settings...[WAS always] is selected
If anyone can confirm that I now have the correct choices to produce the best sounds, or suggest improvements, I would appreciate it!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Welcome to the forum and to BIAB.
BIAB can use both MIDI and audio. It's important to know the difference, and which sound is on each track in the mixer for your song. BIAB audio is called RealTracks (and RealDrums), and it is recordings of actual musicians. When you select a Style, it will tell you each sound and whether it is a RealTrack or MIDI.
If audio (using the WAS setting) doesn't break up or crackle, then it's working for you. Audio in general either works or doesn't'; there isn't a 'better' out there except for cleaner digital equipment or bigger/better speakers. If you are hearing problems with playing back audio, then tell us more. There are a lot of things to try. For example, with my sound module, the WAS driver doesn't work as well as ASIO.
About MIDI: the Microsoft GS Wavetable does indeed often sound like a toy. It is provided with soundcards so you'll be able to hear something, but it is not a good sound. I'm going to assume the trumpet and sax you don't like are MIDI. The most important thing to know about MIDI is that MIDI is a set of instructions; it has no sound of its own. The quality is entirely dependent upon the sound module you use. This can be hardware or software, and the price ranges from free to thousands. In your case, you have a DXi checked, so you are using a software MIDI synth. MIDI is also less likely to be able to convey the nuances a real musician plays.
I use a hardware MIDI synth, so I will let others advise you who are more familiar with software, particularly the VSTsynthfont64 you have selected.
You've asked good questions and it's great you provided information. I realize this can be complicated. Take one thing at a time and we'll help.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2001
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For what it's worth, Peter Gannon suggested that the soft synth that comes with cakewalk is better than the synth bundled with BIAB - see his sticky post with the heading 'no Brainer'. Using that synth for midi should make things sound better.
Last edited by Bob Calver; 05/26/19 11:18 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi KLB, I agree with everything Matt has written. If it's any use, the link below shows images of my set up. These days, BIAB 64 also has CoyoteWT as a free softwynth as well as VSTSynthFont64. I switch between both but tend to use CoyoteWT more. I also use MME instead of WAS. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=461558#Post461558Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
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As a General MIDI sound library (GM), the default sound set for VSTSynthfont is the same as Coyote WT is the same as Microsoft GS WavTable. It's just a matter of how the sound is processed. Microsoft WavTable is processed as if it were a virtual external MIDI module, but with a fair amount of latency not generally found with an external module or VST plugin. VSTSynthfont is a VST instrument, which when used with a good driver like ASIO (best) or WAS (better) has limited latency than the MME driver, and Coyote WT is a DXi wrapped version of the sound set, with the same latency capabilities/limitations as VSTSynthfont. But in the end, all three by default use the same sound set,and so will sound the same.
Trumpets and saxes (and guitars) are generally the instruments that lose their "authentic" sound in the MIDI realm, and while you can spend a lot of money on sound sources for those instruments, even with a lot of tweaking, the best you will do is come close.
One of the advantages with VSTSynthfont is that you can load up any soundfont library you wish to replace the default. There are some decent GM soundfonts our there, but you won't get that perfect sound, especially for those instruments.
You can also use Kontakt instruments (it's a VSTi) to get close, but that will cost you some money. For solo trumpet, you could use the Realitone Screaming Trumpet, or the Indiginus Blue Street Library, or Native Instuments Session Horns Pro,or a host of others for more realistic tone. Even then, while they will play in BIAB, they are really suited more for a DAW, where you will probably want to tweak every note with specific keyswitch articulations to get the best sound possible.
I can't really speak to sax or guitar libraries; others will have to jump in.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Hi KLB, You are finding out that to get better MIDI sounds you need to spend money. Some sounds in the low end of the MIDI scale, like those that come with BiaB, are OK but others are just plain awful. As you start getting better MIDI sound sources you will realize that those OK sounds won't cut it anymore. To continue John's message the best sax sounds are from audio modeling: https://audiomodeling.com/Another good sax and trumpet source is VG Trumpet: https://vgtrumpet.com/One of the best trumpets is from sample modeling: https://www.samplemodeling.com/en/products_trumpet.phpNone of these require additional purchases. A work of warning. As John said you can get excellent emulations using MIDI. However that can only be done with a knowledge of MIDI, especially Continuous Controllers (CC). You will need to study the instrument you want to emulate then learn what CCs to use to accomplish it. Don't let this scare you. It really isn't that hard. The main point here is that if you take a BiaB track, say a sax, use an expensive sound source but don't learn MIDI CCs then it will still be a poor sounding, static track. Good luck.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 21
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Thanks to everyone who replied to my question. It sounds like I probably have things set up adequately for the time being. It's pretty obvious that I'm ignorant of MIDI, etc.. I need to educate myself so I can navigate things and not be totally in the dark. At least things are working now, even if they aren't producing the best sounds. I plan to use BiaB mostly for backing tracks and practice sheets, so hopefully I won't be too disadvantaged. I'm sure as I gain more experience I'll want to branch out and utilize more than the just the basic functionality. Thanks again for the feedback.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,567
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Take a look at the SFZ player that comes with BiaB. It is a single sounding player so you will have to set each instrument up to use it but that is not hard and we will all help you if needed.
Some advantages of using SFZ is that the sounds are much better, there are many free and inexpensive sounds available, and most important IMHO is that you can change sounds. That is if you don't like a trumpet sound you can load a new different trumpet sound. Another advantage is that it will also load soundfonts (SF2) and there are a ton of good free sounding SF2s available.
I believe that when you start using the SFZ player you will be much happier.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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+++ THESE +++ are interesting midi sound modules. They are by a Taiwan acoustic piano and electronic keyboard manufacturer. The Mini Engine USB, that's the model on the left on the webpage, sells for $59 US on Amazon. The Mini Engine Pro sells for about $72 US on Amazon. Both units have an internal battery so you can connect directly to a midi controller and bypass the need for a computer. For computer use, the units perfom similar to any external midi sound module. The units use the EMU-8030 midi synth chip capable of using 16 or 24 bit wavetable samples at resolutions up to 192 Khz so the sound limitation will be whatever wavetable sound bank is used. One of the units advertise a 128 MB sound bank which is similar in size to the sound bank Creative used in their sound cards. MidiPlus has other midi products so if your interested in midi the site is worth investigating.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 21
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OP
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Thanks again to everyone for all the input. A lot of possibilities for me to explore!
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