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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457 |
I'm thinking most specifically about MIDI drum tracks here, which is when the balance between the various pieces of kit is, to me, most egregious. You know, there's a good reason why a studio engineer mics every piece of a drummer's kit. What BiaB does to MIDI drum tracks makes it pretty obvious why it should be done.
The bass drum is almost always WAY too loud with the Standard and Room sets. Not so bad with the jazz set, but then the jazz set's bass drum sounds like one is thumping a soft pillow. If a side stick is being used, it usually isn't loud enough. The hi-hat is almost never loud enough, and there aren't enough options that include a ride cymbal (imo). Plus, sometimes there's a perfect balance of items except one. Like those sticks that get knocked together. Those things drive me nuts. I would love to be able to kill their output entirely, which would turn an aggravating track into a very nice one.
I don't know how PGM would go about implementing such a feat. I just know it needs to be done. But there's a big problem with this request and that is that it isn't possible to edit a track unless it is the melody or soloist track. So until PGM changes this fault, my request can't make it to first base. And I'm stuck with having to export the MIDI drums to a program like Cakewalk, which uses all sorts of arcane looking symbols for the various percussion items, and do the editing there.
I can hear your keys clattering already. Why don't I just use DrumTracks instead? Why indeed. Okay, I'll agree that they do seem to be better balanced. But you know, for starters, I have come across more variability, and even more interesting drum tracks that are MIDI than I have as DrumTracks. When I do a search through the DrumTracks for a type of feel, I usually come back to the same three or four styles that fit what I'm looking for. In this regard, I've found there to be a much better offering of MIDI tracks than DrumTracks. Surprised me, but I find it to be true.
So yet another wish that might, if I'm very lucky, be realized in my lifetime.
Oh, almost forgot to mention -- I'm using Cakewalk's excellent TTS-1 synth to realize my MIDI tracks.
Last edited by cooltouch; 01/16/20 05:05 PM.
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I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Use better synths there are literally hundreds of chooses. Also use drum synths like ez drummer, slate drums, jamstix etc.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 167
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 167 |
I understand why you want to balance the kits pieces. What I don't get is why you want to do it on a MIDI velocity level. The natural palce for me would be within the drum synth (if it has a built-in mixer) or within the DAW (if I route the pieces from the drum VST to individual audio tracks).
Or do you want to have more control within BiaB itself? I was assuming that anyone who cares so much about the sound will do the mix in a DAW.
Masi
Band-in-a-Box, BiaB-plugin, Reaper, Win10 64bit, i7-8565U, 24GB RAM (always latest versions)
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,173 |
Did I read correctly that you are using TTS1 for drums. If so why there are many drum VSTi’s out there. Either way if you are using a DAW to mix then it is normally a very simple process the select the kick and reduce the velocity. To select the kick (or whatever note) is often just a matter of clicking or right clicking on the piano keyboard represented on the piano roll view in most DAWs. Then pulling down the offending note.
Most DAWs also have humanise option that sets individual levels for velocity. In a halfway reasonable VSTi a drum kit can be set up to the levels and tones you like before applying the MIDI data. I use Addictive Drums 2 or even Cakewalks (Digital Sound Factories) Session Drummer 3 and the choices are endless.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
My thoughts
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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If ever there was a poster who really should include his BBox version (if not more specs) in his profile info, I haven't seen one yet.
Case in point: Just how old is your BBox if you think it's impossible to tweak velocity levels of specific notes (or get rid of them entirely, for that matter) unless it's on the Melody/Soloist track?? Because,let me tell you, with the Piano Roll, you absolutely can!
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
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Joined: Jun 2005
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The TTS 1 has a flaw with the default kick. It's stuck at a velocity of 127 which is why it's so loud. Years ago Biab added a popup when you first use it that says "Change default kick drum from part 34 to 35? (not sure about the exact number). Whatever it is just say yes. The TTS 1 is over 20 years old and Roland has never fixed that. That's what you get with a freebie.
As for the question in general regarding midi instrument or individual drum kit parts volume levels, they can either be controlled with the plugin or the Biab piano roll.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2011
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I wasn't getting the too-loud kick in TTS-1, at first at least. I was getting it in BiaB. In fact, I've found more often than not that TTS-1 actually brings down the loudness of the kick to more bearable levels much of the time, but not all of the time. I wasn't aware of the kick being stuck on 127 in TTS-1, so I went and had a look at a couple of my files with MIDI drums. Yep, well, one of them did. But the curious thing about it is, it also had a section where the kick had been reduced, and you know what? I couldn't hear any volume difference. So I dunno what's up with that. But as long as it isn't letting things get out of hand, I'm fine with that.
I realize there are lots of VSTs out there that are better than TTS-1, but as a GM synth, it works very well for initial playback and tuning of pieces that I've translated over from BiaB. In most cases, if I've liked the drum patterns I found in BiaB, I didn't mess with them in CW unless I felt that a volume adjustment was necessary. I've found the sets available in TTS-1 to be adequate for my needs. I do have a few drum and percussion VSTs, and I've used them a few times, but most of the time I haven't felt them to be necessary.
Plus, right now, until I upgrade my machine, I'm having to be cognizant of the overhead caused by the addition of each VST. I'm on the ragged edge of functionality right now with my 11-year-old box. It's been a good machine, but I'm afraid the time for its retirement has come.
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I wasn't getting the too-loud kick in TTS-1, at first at least. I was getting it in BiaB. In fact, I've found more often than not that TTS-1 actually brings down the loudness of the kick to more bearable levels much of the time, but not all of the time. Sounds like your Normalize Midi prefs may be at play here. See if turning that of/on makes things better or worse. Maybe by finding the sweet spot upper limit might help. I'm on the ragged edge of functionality right now with my 11-year-old box. It's been a good machine, but I'm afraid the time for its retirement has come. If by that you're inferring that your version of BBox is equally old, then that will explain a great deal 
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
BBox 2022 Audiophile, Mac Pro Intel, OSX 10.6.8, 800x600 (TV VGA)
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The overall question about midi volumes has nothing to do with Biab or any other midi playback program. When someone creates a midi file they obviously have to use a synth to hear what they're doing. They will balance the parts according to that synth and it sounds good TO THEM. You as a user may not have the same synth that was used to create the file and even if you did what sounded great to the original creator of that file may not be how you want to hear it. If you're using a GM synth one of the big differences between GM synths is how they balanced the individual instruments. The TTS 1 did it their way, Ketron does it their way, etc. Rebalancing all that is up to the user and especially with midi drum kits. They can be all over the place and what you pay for with a midi drum synth module other than the sounds themselves is the midi control they give you. Not all midi editing features are the same, far from it. Biab gives you some control but it's really the synth you're using that's the most important part of this.
Biab is based on GM and it gives you the basic framework of your song and sounds but it's up to you to take that and customize it however you want. It's not simply plug and pray.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I haven't used TTS-1 in a long time but if I remember correctly you could modify a patch then save it in the user section. Thus you could lower the kick drum volume and safe it, then later use that kit in your song(s). YMMV
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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I remember trying that and it didn't work. It was said by someone that this was a flaw in the TTS 1, the default kick drum was locked at a velocity of 127 which is why a Biab patch came out giving you the option to click Yes to that popup question to change the kick drum number.
This is different from taking a midi file that was created using the TTS 1 and loading it into a DAW and using a different drum synth. Doing that you can change that kick drum to whatever value you want. But, the other side of that coin, you take a midi file and play it with the TTS 1 the kick is locked at 127 regardless of what the Event Editor says the velocities should be. All you can do then is change the kick drum. Biab simply automated that with the popup.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
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Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
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These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
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-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
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Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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