|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 236
Apprentice
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 236 |
Hey all,
I'm reminded today of posting my demo on a forum sometime back: the listener said my bass sounded weak. { working with standard biab real tracks, mainly, to my DAW. }
,
I'd forgotten about that till recently, when I started
doubling the bass tracks exported from biab to my DAW.
I even boosted the EQ on these duplicated tracks. Why? weak bass. Result, better but still - ho hum.
today I recorded on some external budget recorders, and
was shocked: the bass tracks sounded FULL - like real
electric bass! Something my ears have not been hearing.
I'm not talking about speaker/ headphone issues - these signals are coming 100 percent direct from biab to my DAW.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330 |
Are you using the exact same Bass as you did in your previous demo?
Were they both MIDI, RealTracks or a mixture of both.
Definitely not all Bass instruments are played the same across all RealTracks, even MIDI.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 266
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 266 |
[quote=Definitely not all Bass instruments are played the same across all RealTracks, even MIDI.
[/quote]
Not just Bass, I find there is a lot of variation of volume across most intruments.
Very irritating at times!
Vintage
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330 |
Yes, these are reasonable comments.
We need to know how to compare apples with apples in this case. As you correctly state, results do vary, so lets try to find the baseline to use for the comparison.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,796
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,796 |
Problems with stacking audiofiles like real tracks is that frequencies over lap. Especially basses and acouctic guitars end up in the same bandwith at times.
A good mixing job is not just a piece of cake. Get a set of better plugins than PG offers; i never use them since they are quite mediocre.
Especially basses and bassdrums sometimes can really stand out by using some specializing EQ.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,504
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,504 |
Bass guitar sims that allow custom sound tailoring. Make sure that panning is used properly so that as mentioned above the frequencies don’t step on each other. A good starting place is to mix the instruments as if they were standing on stage before an audience. Picture in your mind bass player to one side lead guitar on the other drums in the middle etc. help mentally to pan instruments off each other.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179 |
Hey all,
I'm reminded today of posting my demo on a forum sometime back: the listener said my bass sounded weak. { working with standard biab real tracks, mainly, to my DAW. }
, For VideoTrack - he stated RT's, not MIDI
I'd forgotten about that till recently, when I started
doubling the bass tracks exported from biab to my DAW.
I even boosted the EQ on these duplicated tracks. Why? weak bass. Result, better but still - ho hum.
Sometimes it is better to cut certain frequencies than continue to boost, but that doesn't appear to be your true issue hear. (spelling not intentional but I decided to leave it <grin>)
today I recorded on some external budget recorders, and
was shocked: the bass tracks sounded FULL - like real
electric bass! Something my ears have not been hearing.
I'm not talking about speaker/ headphone issues - these signals are coming 100 percent direct from biab to my DAW.
Now we're getting to the crux. What DAW did you use initially? It occurs to me going from BB to DAW is a digital conversion. Did the external recorder involve transforming digital to audio before getting recorded? Just wondering if how your particular DAW is converting the WMA files may be part of the issue. FWIW, (and this may sound weird) sometimes cutting around 100HZ and boosting 2 kHZ can make a bass stand out. One of my favorite sayings from our long absent friend Mac was that, when solo'd, 'a bass track should sound like someone is working on an old Buick'. The higher frequencies a bass produces adds a lot to how we perceive it and also adds character. As for differences in the recordings; I'm pretty sure PGMusic isn't present when a lot of these RTs are created, so individual artists' recordings are what they have to work with. They do the magical slicing/dicing, but that actual recordings, as far as I know, are pretty much something they receive from elsewhere. Example - somewhere around here is video of Bret Mason recording some RTs. Something in that video explanation implied the above to me. Add to that each RT is created for a given style; some styles are more bass heavy than others, and handled to work well with the other RTs in that original style..
Last edited by rharv; 05/20/20 05:37 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 236
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 236 |
thanks guys for replies. A lot of these tips I've tried already. Good to see others have noticed the volume issues, as well.
videotrack
Are you using the exact same Bass as you did in your previous demo?
Were they both MIDI, RealTracks or a mixture of both.
Definitely not all Bass instruments are played the same across all RealTracks, even MIDI.
I generally use realtracks, but sometimes I guess I'll
accept the midi. No cant say I was using the exact track.
rharv t occurs to me going from BB to DAW is a digital conversion. Did the external recorder involve transforming digital to audio before getting recorded?
Just wondering if how your particular DAW is converting the WMA files may be part of the issue.
I don't think I explained well. The recorder had an onboard bass vst. I played through that. The recording
was played back to head phones direct from the recorder { not going to my DAW{} I was struck by the excellent tone and clarity of the bass notes.
these issues and ones responses to sounds, are all subjective of course.
I listened to some of my other past projects today.
Not all the bass tracks are too low. BUT the ones where I can hear it at seemingly good mix level --- the bass seems muddy. It's like I hear a pressure of low end bass notes, but can't really distinguish the individual notes. Does that make sense?
That may me a larger problem I think.
thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179 |
That does make sense, and sounds like the low end EQ needs to be cleaned up.
Guitars can muddy up a low end pretty easily for one. Maybe cut some low end out of the guitar(s) .. get surgical with the drum EQ too, give the bass some room.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 861
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 861 |
Panning can be a useful tool, to a point.
For me, channel strip EQ is the real scalpel (continuing with rharv's surgical metaphor)for this job
Using eq on each Channel strip I try to carve out little pockets in the frequency spectrum that each instrument can "own".
I will boost the eq curve for the particular instrument in its sweet spot range.
I don't exclude an instrument from other frequencies, I just try to find a solid voice for an instrument focused within a limited frequency range. I can visually inspect all separations by comparing the eq curves simultaneously on the channel strips.
Its not brick-walled, but you can see it. Adjust as necessary. Lather, Rinse, repeat.
This approach really seems to get some separation on the band.
It got rid of a lot of mud in my mixes, especially at the lower end.
I may add a little panning. especially where I have two chording instruments, usually no more than 20-25 points left or right.
I also use volume automation to deal with oddball notes.
I'm far from an expert at doing this. There may be better ways
For my work (instrumental backing tracks) its been an improvement
biab2024(Mac) Latest Build
Mac OS (Latest)
Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram
Logic Pro 11
Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,179 |
Yes, your described method is much the same, except that I do not just boost the desired freq for a given track, I cut all un-needed frequencies also.
There is no sense letting 60 hZ or 30 HZ add mess on a guitar track. Simply put, none of the valuable data is in that range and all it can do is add noise/mud, which sometimes gets exaggerated by FX. Try cutting below 60 hZ with EQ; you'll likely see no noticeable difference in the guitar, but now it is in its own space and the bass can breath. You may find the EQ cut adjustment on the guitar track didn't affect the guitar so much, but may indeed affect the drums and bass. <grin>
What you cut is just as valuable (and many pros will say it is MORE valuable) than what you boost.
I think what makes this hard for some to understand is while you are working on a guitar track, your mind is thinking 'how do I make it stand out'?
But the other view is 'how do I make it not intrude, and add mud or noise to the end result'?
By simply boosting suddenly your guitar can stand out but the drums and bass are still muddy, and maybe muddier .. all you gained was frustration.
That's why I used the term surgical EQ.
It's not just adding more of what's good, it is also removing what is bad (surgery).
Every track is different, but you start learning some basics quickly (cymbals do not need anything below 100hZ, guitar below 60 hZ is only adding to the problem, bass above 5kHz is expendable and often somewhere else in a bass frequency range it is battling with guitar and/or bass drum, etc,)
As an example, too much bass in the 30hZ area can kill the thud of a bass drum .. and too much in 100hZ can fight with the guitar low end (you have to decide which is more important and whether cutting 100hZ on guitar or bass is the better solution to give the other more room) .. luckily these tests are easy once you start trying them. Look for a clean mix first, boosting the whole mix later is easy once it is clean to start with. Trying to boost a song that already has conflicts is a nightmare and at best a concession (accepting trade offs). ie mastering
EQ can clean a lot of this up and add definition to each instrument, but again, cutting works well for many purposes. Don't always look for what to boost, also look for what you can cut. EQ adjustments go up AND down for a reason. <grin>
Last edited by rharv; 05/21/20 02:22 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 236
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 236 |
Thanks mrgeeze and rharv!
Great tips to get me back on the right track { pun not intended ? } with biab!
thanks all!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,390
Posts778,605
Members39,642
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean