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A question for piano players #612189 08/25/20 08:24 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Hi, I was looking around for a piano tutorial for Misty. I took a look at how Erroll Garner played this. OMG...how could anyone learn to play like that? I saw a couple of simplified versions. I guess I could learn to play the simplified version given a large amount of time to learn. Can anyone here play the Erroll Garner version or does this just look difficult to a novice like me? https://youtu.be/P_tAU3GM9XI Cheers, Billy Last edited by Planobilly; 08/25/20 08:25 AM. “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612191 08/25/20 09:29 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Originally Posted By: Planobilly OMG...how could anyone learn to play like that? You practice hours a day for years.....

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612193 08/25/20 09:35 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Yes Eddie...My wife told me all I had to do was go back to being three years old and start over...lol “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612200 08/25/20 10:18 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,664 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,664 Middlesex, NC	I think this a few steps above that. https://youtu.be/VJExqsrZzeA Look at some of her other performances. Astoundingly good. The best I have seen. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612217 08/25/20 11:56 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,015 Sacramento, California dcuny Veteran
dcuny Veteran Joined: Sep 2010 Posts: 8,015 Sacramento, California	There's a video of Steve Allen giving tips on playing piano. Steve mentions in passing that learning Errol's style is worthwhile, but problematic because he's so distinctive, at best you come across as a poor imitation. -- David Cuny My virtual singer development blog Vocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing? BiaB 2025 \| Windows 11 \| Reaper \| Way too many VSTis.

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612228 08/25/20 12:42 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	I have seen a few videos of Hiromi Uehara playing. Totally off the chain. A lady who played piano for the German National Symphony Orchestra lived above me when I lived in France. She could play any piece of sheet music I ever put in front of her. She could not play Happy Birthday without the sheet music. I got her started playing by ear. I really miss Nicole and France. Actually have listen to many versions of Misty. Some I like better than the original. How Erroll arpeggiates the 13th chords in his left hand is pretty impressive. I play guitar but messing around with the keyboard has been just that...messing around. Stuck here in my house for god knows how long, I am spending more and more time trying to learn how to play piano. I have had a piano for a long time and it has been instrumental in teaching me music theory. I can figure out any chord in any inversion without issue on the piano. Every second I have spent on the piano has helped me with the guitar. It is quite common for people who play very well to have started when they were kids. I got a year or so in band in grade school on Trumpet. At least I learned how to sight read some simple stuff. If I could go back to the beginning and start over again knowing what I know now, it would be Drums, Bass, Piano, and Guitar in that order. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612297 08/26/20 05:19 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Originally Posted By: Planobilly Yes Eddie...My wife told me all I had to do was go back to being three years old and start over...lol And did you do as you were told?????

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612357 08/26/20 01:43 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Yes I did! Also I am obviously a brilliant three year old as I am able to respond to this post...lol “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612380 08/26/20 03:37 PM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Originally Posted By: Planobilly Yes I did! Also I am obviously a brilliant three year old as I am able to respond to this post...lol If you can type at 3, you can play piano!! I was 4 yrs 10 months when I started lessons.

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612546 08/27/20 09:47 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,137 Essex England Bob Calver Veteran
Bob Calver Veteran Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 2,137 Essex England	agree about practice but there has to be a natural aptitude and talent. a friend and i started guitar together at around 14. i practiced as hard as i could but within months he was light years ahead of me and i never caught up. he became famous in the local area as a guitarist. its like a snowball, the better he got the faster he improved.

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612592 08/28/20 03:06 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	I have been close friends with a couple of exceptional guitar players. I also have been good friends with one piano player and one drummer with exceptional skills. I agree with Bob about the natural aptitude issue. All of the people I have known with exceptional skills had certain things in common. I rarely saw them without a guitar or other instrument in their hand. They all had some form of formal training. All of them could read, write, and play music. They had little interest in anything outside of music. Every one of them except the piano player could hear something a play it right back. I am not sure the piano player had what could be construed as exceptional talent. She could absolutely play anything written you put in front of her. Her training was long and difficult. She studied for more than fifteen years under the guidance of a professional. I am not sure she actuality enjoyed playing the way most of us do. She did get great satisfaction from being able to read and play with exceptional degree of competency. I always found it strange that someone could play anything that was written but could not play the simplest of songs without the sheet music. I also knew a guitar play who had graduated from a well known music school who could play anything you ask him on guitar. With all those skills he had no idea what to do at a jam session....strange There also seems to be a typical amount of time required to master any given complex skill which is about seven thousand hours. I think given enough time most anyone could learn how to more less duplicate a piece of music. I also think they probability would have a very difficult time to create the same type of thing. Having said that, learning how to emulate someone else will color your own playing. It is pretty easy to recognize the Berkeley School Of Music stamp on many of their students. Too much typing...lol Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612601 08/28/20 03:40 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	I went to a post holiday jam night a few years back and there was a guy there who could pick up a guitar and rip solos off as well as anybody I ever heard. However, as soon as a drummer, bass player and me on keyboards joined him, we realized he had zero idea about "music". He had no feel for when chord changes were coming, where they could go... I guess it's correct to say he had no ear. Theory doesn't make you a good player. Playing makes you a good player. Being a good player doesn't teach you theory, unless you develop a sense of structure. You can be a whiz at one without the other, but that beautiful marriage of people who are skilled at both is a joy. When the jam leader holds up 4 fingers, if you don't know that means you go from the root chord to the 4th chord in the scale, you are lost. But you don't have to know WHY it's the 4th chord in the scale, just that if you are in E you go to A. After years of playing and doing it correctly that segment of the playing population knows theory without knowing they know it. Tom Bukovac, on his youtube channel, once put up a clip of his section of the studio he was in that day. After seeing him say MANY times "I don't know theory for **** (I put the asterisks in)", he showed that taped to his wall were beautifully written chord charts that could not have been written by someone who doesn't know theory. I mean they included things like Bm7b5. If you know to make your chart include a flatted 5, you know theory. Maybe not ALL of theory, but that's a good, strong working knowledge of chord interrelationships. Which is theory. People can PLAY that same Bm7b5 and not KNOW they are playing it. Neither one is better than the other. Just different. Music has a lot of pastel in it. Everything isn't the same solid primary colors. So yeah, we've all known people at different stages of proficiency. I know keyboard players in the area that make me want to never play again. I know a producer that is so good I never want to try to mix again. Sax players that make me embarrassed to play in front of them. They are a unique mix of playing skill and theory wise to varying degrees. All equally great!

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #612622 08/28/20 05:33 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	I agree you you Eddie. There is nothing good or bad about any of this. It is what it is. Structured technical proficiency does not sound any different than unstructured proficiency. A B flat scale is a B flat scale no matter if you understand what it is or not. There are a lot of roads to Dallas Texas...some will just get you there quicker. Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #613255 09/01/20 07:32 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,664 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,664 Middlesex, NC	Yep, it's all about what you have learned and how efficiently you apply it. I have played in bands, mostly in church praise bands where the piano players could play anything you put in front of them in the form of sheet music. Didn't matter that they hadn't heard it before or how many sharps or flats where in the key signature. But ask them to jam in the key of G with a one four five progression, and they looked at you like you were speaking Mandarin Chinese. I remember when I was a kid.... just starting on guitar, a piano student to a classical instructor who believed in reading the music and understanding music theory. I was at a church gathering and someone handed me an acoustic guitar and there was a lady there who asked if I knew a certain song. I did. And that started a 30 minute jam session with her singing and me playing and she was amazed that I could play any song in any key and didn't need to see the sheet music. I remember thinking that yeah.... there.s nothing to it. I can hear the changes coming. We even played a few that I didn't know but I was following her melody and it worked. She would sing it a bit and I'd jump in and away we'd go. One last thing about the piano teacher. She'd hand me a new piece of sheet music and then she'd play it for me. She'd say, OK... your job is to learn this at home this week and bring it back and play it for me just like I played it. I'd go home and practice it. I remember going back.... proud of the work I had spent on it....and I played it for her. She sat there totally quiet when I finished the piece. Then she said, "That was really good. Now, I'd like you to play what is actually written on the staff this time." Oooops... I guess I added some embellishments to it. But the cool thing was she never tried to extinguish that creative spark. She encouraged it and also encouraged me to learn to read. One day, several years into my lessons, she stopped me about 10 minutes into the lesson and asked me how many minutes I spent on the lesson material on the piano.... I said I reckon about 30 minutes. She asked how much time I spent playing the guitar that week. I had to admit, it was several hours minimum. She told me to pack my books and that she was done teaching me piano. Mom wasn't happy but I was..... I had all the time in the world now to play the guitar. Last edited by Guitarhacker; 09/01/20 07:40 AM. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #613269 09/01/20 08:39 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Cool story Guitarhacker. I like the piano but I find myself moving over and picking up my guitar. Being more or less locked up at home is no fun. I struggle through some simple song on the piano and then go to the guitar. I guess anyone can learn any instrument alone now days with the internet. Nothing can replace setting beside some teacher you like. The only really good news for me is I don't feel any pain playing the piano. Sight reading on the piano has improved my ability to sight read on guitar. Cheers, Billy “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #613286 09/01/20 10:50 AM Off-Topic
E eddie1261 Unregistered
eddie1261 Unregistered E	Originally Posted By: Planobilly There are a lot of roads to Dallas Texas...some will just get you there quicker. And some find you in Plano.....

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #613293 09/01/20 11:59 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,725 Gulf Of Mexico As Of Late	Actually that is just "plain old Billy" the way it started out. Old blues guitar player friend of mine use to call me that. Many years after I moved to Plano Texas for a short while. Then it was planobillydfw. Then I moved back to Florida and dropped the dfw and added the fl. Now I am just getting plane old...lol I use to get invoices from Rockin Robin in the name of "Blind Lemon Simmons". The things I use to do... My old guitar player friend. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqHBa-oIED0 Cheers, Who ever I am “Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig? “Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”

Re: A question for piano players Guitarhacker #613360 09/02/20 02:19 AM Off-Topic
Joined: Feb 2001 Posts: 716 Waterloo Ontario Canada T Tony Wright Journeyman
Tony Wright Journeyman T Joined: Feb 2001 Posts: 716 Waterloo Ontario Canada	Originally Posted By: Guitarhacker I have played in bands, mostly in church praise bands where the piano players could play anything you put in front of them in the form of sheet music. Didn't matter that they hadn't heard it before or how many sharps or flats where in the key signature. But ask them to jam in the key of G with a one four five progression, and they looked at you like you were speaking Mandarin Chinese. That describes me exactly. I have been playing the piano for 67 years and cannot play a note without the music and cannot even memorize a piece that I have been playing for decades. It's all about whether you have an "ear" or not. Telling begineers that they will all be able to play without the music by huge practice will lead to massive dissapointment for those that don't have the ear. It's the same with art - telling someone they can learn to draw well if they display no natural talent just doesn't work. To illustrate the point I remember a lesson at high school when the music teacher was teaching about intervals by playing them on the piano and asking us to describe the interval. I was the only person in the class who played an instrument but was one of the worst at recognising the interval. My affliction explains why I took to BIAB 20 years ago. It is the perfect music program for me and keeps me going musically even at age 77. I now have about 800 BIAB songs with the sheet music filed in binders. At one time I had trouble finding the music to arrange in BIAB but with internet availability I can find just about anything and love experiencing genres that piano players my age would never touch. I even have the original music from my first few years like Bill Haley and the Comets and keep working at finding good BIAB styles for Queen. Tony

Re: A question for piano players Planobilly #623238 11/14/20 06:03 PM Off-Topic
Joined: Nov 2020 Posts: 1 F Franni Mac Newbie
Franni Mac Newbie F Joined: Nov 2020 Posts: 1	Originally Posted By: Planobilly Can anyone here play the Erroll Garner version or does this just look difficult to a novice like me? Imitating a master performer would be difficult if not impossible for most piano players. Instead of trying to copy, it might be better to look for patterns and techniques to add to your skill set. For example - arpeggiated chords or rolled chord inversions up or down the keyboard to fill in spaces left by long melody notes, playing the melody using parallel chords, sixths, or fifths, tremolo on the left hand chords, stride bass, chromatic runs leading into a melody note. Your version of these techniques might be slower, or use fewer notes, but would still add more character and interest to the music.

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