|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032 |
A song is an entity. It's a bit like a marriage in that way. Doubt it?
Listen to an instrumental version of "Yesterday" and tell me it's not an instrumental version of A SONG. The song is "Yesterday". Arrange it differently, reharmonize it, slow it down, speed it up, embellish the melody--it remains "Yesterday".
In addition, print the lyric out, and it is the LYRIC of "Yesterday".
It isn't the lyric, and it isn't the tune that wholly makes the song "Yesterday". It simply IS "Yesterday". And that song is what is protected under copyright, such as it is.
And a follow on from this is, that has been discussed before on the forums is the misconception that though chords can't be copyrighted, if you create a fake version of the song and call it Yesterday with the unique chords to that song included (but no melody) then if it was to go to court you could well loose the copyright infringement case.
Last edited by musiclover; 11/14/20 07:37 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 266
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 266 |
I'm opposed to any form of plagiarism.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
Vintage
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 732
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 732 |
A song is an entity. It's a bit like a marriage in that way. Doubt it?
Listen to an instrumental version of "Yesterday" and tell me it's not an instrumental version of A SONG. The song is "Yesterday". Arrange it differently, reharmonize it, slow it down, speed it up, embellish the melody--it remains "Yesterday".
In addition, print the lyric out, and it is the LYRIC of "Yesterday".
It isn't the lyric, and it isn't the tune that wholly makes the song "Yesterday". It simply IS "Yesterday". And that song is what is protected under copyright, such as it is.
And a follow on from this is, that has been discussed before on the forums is the misconception that though chords can't be copyrighted, if you create a fake version of the song and call it Yesterday with the unique chords to that song included (but no melody) then if it was to go to court you could well loose the copyright infringement case. Which is why the chord only versions in say a Norton Fake Book collection is named "Yesterday, et. al." Which essentially says these are the chords that are found in that song and others. Since we all know chord progressions are used over and over and over in all different songs. The melody and then the lyrics make it the song we recognize as Yesterday. Same as online Jazz instruction, when they rename a standard, yet it is still the same chord progression, then improvise over it without angering the take down gods.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032 |
Joe read this thread which appeared on the forum some time ago, especially the eighth post down and see what you make of that. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=591161&page=3Just because someone includes a well known song in a fake disk, without a melody (because they assume that under no circumstances are chords copyrightable) does not mean this always is the case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,032 |
I'm opposed to any form of plagiarism.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
Vintage
Yep The town I love so well, has a great melody to it, maybe if we write a different lyric to it, we could well have a hit on our hands. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 785 |
Well having read replies and thinking this over, I have changed my mind completely, Lyrics are nothing more than random words thrown together for a rhyme and should never be allowed copyrights!!!. Ha, just joking folks. Yeah, I still think that while yesterday, being used as an example, has it's own flavor, as a tune it would not be copied as is, to make a song, it would never sell, yesterday is too well known, and any song that is so well known would not be something anyone could reproduce exactly in the original tune and sell to the public. So that alone would keep it's autonomy. But, my suggestion still stands.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253 |
So who gets to adjudicate which music is "well known" enough to remain immune to being copied? And what about a piece of music that is not "well known" but it clearly unique and different than anything else? See the problem with what you're suggesting? There's no practical way to do it, and I can assure you that there would be 0.0% support for something like this in the music industry, songwriting community, or the Federal government.
Kudos to sticking to your guns on your suggestion, it just happens to be one that has no basis in law and would never happen in a real world scenario.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 20,330 |
1:Kudos to sticking to your guns on your suggestion, 2:it just happens to be one that has no basis in law and would never happen in a real world scenario. 1:Yes, and 2: (hopefully) Yes.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 732
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 732 |
Joe read this thread which appeared on the forum some time ago, especially the eighth post down and see what you make of that. https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=591161&page=3Just because someone includes a well known song in a fake disk, without a melody (because they assume that under no circumstances are chords copyrightable) does not mean this always is the case. I think the recent stairway to heaven case is a good example. That chord progression, even the way it was played in that song, has been used numerous times. One could say Led Zep stole it from My Funny Valentine, or any number of other standards that have the exact same progression. The plaintiff in this case said they stole it from them because it sounded like their song. They ended up losing. Rhythm Changes (I Got Rhythm). I could list thousands of examples. Without the melody they are just chord progressions. How many songs have II V I, or I vi ii V progressions? There is a great comedy act band that plays the same progression over and over and sings the different songs that used it. It is funny and true. I agree there could be a case where a chord progression is so unique, never been used before, that the song is instantly knowable without a melody or lyric, but I just can't think of any right off. Doesn't matter too much to me anyway as I have said before nobody is clamoring to steal anything of mine!
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,372
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,372 |
Who gets to decide?
A jury of your peers, after being persuaded by the judge and attorneys.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 253 |
To be clear:
There is a colossal difference between a chord progression and a melodic passage.
I can use the C-Am-F-G all day long in writing and not be infringing. On the other hand, if (over the same chord progression) I write a song with the same melody as Buddy Holly's "Everyday", I could (and should) get my butt sued.
Courts have erred, in the opinion of many, in applying too broad of an infringement brushstroke over chord progressions and "feels". Several such cases are under appeal and will probably be overturned (if common sense prevails).
Just a point of clarification to hopefully make apples to apples comparisons and conversations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 732
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 732 |
To be clear:
Courts have erred, in the opinion of many, in applying too broad of an infringement brushstroke over chord progressions and "feels". Several such cases are under appeal and will probably be overturned (if common sense prevails). This.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 1,591 |
I looked into the history a bit. One reason we see royalty getting in on it was because the Kings were the authorities. What was happening in the early days of printing was people would go to great expense to publish a book only to have copycats produce the same thing and pirate it for cheaper. It reached a point where investors were no longer interested. So, really, the original European copyrights were to protect the businessmen and assure a supply of books. The King used his authority for the benefit of the nation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 114
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 114 |
There is a reason that the laws are written the way they are. It would be impractical to copyright chord progressions. Melodies are unique. With chord progressions there are often many many songs that utilize the exact same chord progression.
As far as legal copywrite protection goes...I like what my old music biz professor said, 'court is not fun".
It is arrogant to think you need to legally copywrite.
No way will it ever come into play unless you are very well known.
And even then...it is still often NOT worth doing because of the legal costs.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Songwriting
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,826
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,826 |
Yeah, I know I am going to stir the pot here again. I am a believer that song lyrics should be copyrighted, but, I dont think melodies should be. Take tunes out of the copyright equation and we would have real original music all over the place again on radio. Just my 2 bits and I am sure I am in the minority here. Cliff The Copyright Office of the Library of Congress and Title 17 of the US Code do not agree with you. Why would the melody be less copyrightable than the lyrics?
I think that musically, the melody is even more important than the lyrics. You are entitled to your opinion but you are quite wrong on this. See my previous paragraph. In February, I may have more to say about this for reasons that will be clear if I decide to weigh in again. I might even explain my last statement. It's still January, however.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,383
Posts778,537
Members39,641
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean