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I've heard that Ableton is good for composing and live performance. I've heard the same about BIAB.
I'm wondering what the main differences in the programs are.
Is BIAB more for backing tracks? And Ableton more for through composed improvisational work?
EDIT: I know that Ableton is a DAW, but I am asking about the composition aspects of the program.
Last edited by saxgentleman67; 12/25/20 03:52 PM.
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I must have lost track, because I thought we covered this in another thread.
Composers have to develop a work flow that fits their unique needs. I try to stay in BIAB as long as I can, because it’s easiest to make changes to melody, harmony, chords, tempo, feel etc. Once you move the project to a DAW, some of these things are more locked in.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I have been doing a lot of research on this.
The previous thread compared RealBand to Ableton because they are both DAW's.
However, I have come to find out that in terms of composition Ableton is also quite comparable to BIAB.
Sorry if I wasn't clear about what I was looking for.
EDIT: What I am asking specifically is this:
Which is better for composition?
Last edited by saxgentleman67; 12/25/20 05:29 PM.
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i think the short answer is that BIAB and RB are great for composing. In the other thread i think we established that they will do everything you want. But only you can decide whether Ableton or BIAB suits your workflow best. There is no advice we can give you unless you try them for yourself.
on the forum you have proper serious musicians like Matt and hobbyists like me who produce country and pop backing tracks for playing live in a paid capacity.
so we know BIAB and RB will do what you want. but for a definitive answer you'll have to try both programs to see which you prefer. PG do a 30 day money back option. Ableton i think do a free trial.
try the BIAB ultrapack and Ableton and see which you like. we can't really help you any further.
Last edited by Bob Calver; 12/25/20 11:46 PM.
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I have been doing a lot of research on this.
The previous thread compared RealBand to Ableton because they are both DAW's.
However, I have come to find out that in terms of composition Ableton is also quite comparable to BIAB.
Sorry if I wasn't clear about what I was looking for.
EDIT: What I am asking specifically is this:
Which is better for composition?
What do you mean by composition? If you mean imputing chords and picking a style then BiaB or RealBand is what you want. If you mean recording you playing all of the instruments either by MIDI or audio then Realband and Ableton are tied, they both are DAWs. If you mean a combination of both of the above, BiaB or Realband for chords and styles and you playing a lead and/or a background track or two, then either BiaB to a DAW, BiaB alone, or Realband alone will work. The only difference is your workflow preference. I go from BiaB straight to my DAW. Others go from BiaB to Realband to another DAW. Some work only in Realband. Others Realband to their DAW. In other words it is up to you to decide what is your best workflow. The DAW will make no difference in the final sound. Since you don't have a favorite DAW I would work in BiaB and Realband, it will be all you need to accomplish your goal. If you ask what is the best DAW to use you will get a list of every DAW we are using; Studio One Pro 5, Cakewalk, Reason, Realband, etc. Only you can decide what is best for your workflow. PS - I am a firm believer that anyone staring out on a PC that has BiaB and Realband to use them first. Later if you want to use another DAW the transition is not difficult, but why waist money now when you don't currently use a DAW and you already have Realband?
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Thanks Mario. I think you are getting at what I am looking for. That it is a workflow question.
That is, the difference between simply inputting chords, vs creating tracks from scratch to have more flexibility.
If doing tracks from scratch it seems the typical way is using a DAW to work in.
However, from a lot of what I've seen about Ableton it is unique, in that it is a loop and pattern based sequencer as opposed to a linear sequencer, AND it can be edited without stopping the live playback. Different than most other DAW's
I am strongly leaning toward creating tracks from scratch at this point.
EDIT: What I mean by composition is creating original music, working with melodic ideas in an improvisational free way.
Last edited by saxgentleman67; 12/26/20 07:33 AM.
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The other thread established that Ableton was a far superior DAW compared to RealBand.
Of course I will try them both out. However, Ableton is a much more complex program and I'd rather get some idea before spending hours and hours of time to learn new software.
I am hoping that there is someone on here who has actually used Ableton, who can comment more specifically on how it varies compositionally from BIAB.
I appreciate your previous help. I understand if you can't or won't help me further. However, I think it is really unhelpful for anyone to make a general statement, speaking for everyone, such as this: "We can't really help you any further".
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We are starting to learn more about what you consider composition. It does not appear to be the traditional way I might do it, because you are mentioning loops and composing in realtime without stopping the DAW. The more information like this you can share, the more likely our answers will be helpful.
The advice to give each program a try is always going to be correct. Why are there so many DAWs? They each have a different feature set and, more important, a particular approach to workflow. I can determine within minutes of trying a demo version whether I want to continue with it. That may be because I've used so many music application programs over many decades and because I'm a programmer. But I still think it's good advice for you to try as many as you can.
Even when you have decided what to buy, you will probably use several programs and plugins in any given project. The perfect all-in-one program does not exist. I just changed my notation and DAW programs within the last six months, and upgraded hardware. The trade-in guy at my local music store loves to see me coming. About the only hardware or music software in my studio that I had four years ago that I still use is BIAB.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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What would take you minutes in a demo would likely take me hours. I am not tech savvy. That's why I doing a bit more research on the front and. However, I do understand that will only take me so far.
I hadn't mentioned the definition of composing before because I didn't know about that possibility AND because I thought Ableton was like all other DAW's. AND because originally I was just going to do the backing tracks. Things are evolving as I am finding out more.
I definitely understand that there's no one magic software. Although there are certainly a fair number of people that make their focus Ableton. Clearly your focus is BIAB. Since I havn't done much yet I havn't found my go-to software yet.
From what I see so far, it looks like most DAW's are traditional and for acting primarily as a digital recording system, with a linear sequencer...with varied levels of sophistication and features.
I was kind of set on BIAB with Reaper and then I saw that a lot of people chose Ableton over Reaper because of the pattern based sequencer and composing in it realtime.
I think for now I will do BIAB/RealBand. Later on do a trial of Ableton. I suspect I may end up using BIAB and Ableton together because I know there's a plugin to connect the two. But who knows.
I appreciate everyone's patience in sorting this out. I am creative to the point where it's very easy to get caught up in the details and wanting to explore every option.
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Your logic sounds good. I do appreciate your approach and wish you well.
One possible suggestion. Have you looked at FL Studio? It is a DAW that has its origin in loops. I don't know, but might guess that it could be a worthy candidate for you to consider.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks. Yes, I saw that as an option, but figured if I'm looking to the future I wanted to have something that could grow with me. But perhaps FL Studio could be a good stepping stone, and maybe less overwhelming.
Perhaps I'm not as inept as I think regarding software. It's been a while since I've learned a new program. Part of it is I would prefer to keep my music separate from all the left brain computer stuff. But many others have done it so I suppose I should be able to do fine.
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sax.
imho biab is unique and different from anything else in music software.
i think of it as a bed trak generator.
aka in the old days of muscle shoals and motown, recording studios often had resident "house bands".
the beauty of the biab "house band" is it is always at hand,
and available. whereas a top studio can be booked up.
my best advice to you is to spend lots of time on the pg site going thru all the copious videos. loads of them.
ableton is different imho.
happy new year.
hadtoomuchturkeymuso lol.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs(90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
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I think Justanoldmuso has nailed the answer for saxgentleman67.
saxgentleman67: "I am strongly leaning toward creating tracks from scratch at this point.
EDIT: What I mean by composition is creating original music, working with melodic ideas in an improvisational free way."
Assuming statement is correct validates Justanoldmuso's comments to you. Here's why:
"I definitely understand that there's no one magic software." is incorrect if your goal is as stated above. There is one 'magic' software for creating tracks from scratch. There's only one, BIAB... BIAB is truly unique and different from any other music software for what it does. Create tracks from scratch.
Regarding audio recording, every DAW is the same, a digital audio recorder/mixer that emulates analog mixers and recorders. Every DAW's audio recording 'track' receives audio, saves it and allows post editing. No matter if it's one track, 8 tracks or unlimited tracks, every audio track is designed and functions the same. Regardless if a DAW is on a Mac, PC or is a hardware digital multi track recorder, they all have the same function. A DAW audio track does not generate a finished and complete, complete and logical musical audio clip. It receives audio from a different source meaning audio is recorded onto the track. BIAB tracks are virtual until audio is generated and rendered. BIAB creates logical, musical audio to whatever style, genre, feel, key and tempo it has received instructions to do. To date, I'm unaware of any software that does that task to the high level and complexity of BIAB. DAW's are for post audio conceived and composed audio editing and not creating.
Your musical desire as you've stated above is ideal for BIAB and you're in no need for any DAW at all for 'composition'. DAW's can certainly polish, edit, and make tracks more complex and better arrangements but that's different from what you've stated your goal is.
BIAB is capable of generating as many tracks with as many instruments as you're likely ever to construe for a complex and finished song idea.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Thanks for the reaffirmation. I definitely will use BIAB for composing/arranging.
I've been watching several people using Ableton. The sounds are kind of fake sounding. It does seem to be designed primarily for electronic music, so maybe that's part of it.
However, I have a better idea what's what now. Ableton is unique from all other DAW's in that it is ideal for live performance. Although it seems that FL Studio is pretty close in many ways. Something I may want to explore down the road.
I like the idea of something a bit more interactive(even it's interacting with stuff I've created) when performing live. Triggering different loops and layers of things. But honestly I don't know if I really want to put in the amount of time/effort that'll require.
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Thanks for the reminder to soak up all the training videos on PG's site. I will definitely do that!
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