PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Off-Topic A question for Sax players

Yes he can. But he laughed all the way to the bank as George Benson and Liberace did, plus a few others I'm sure.

On my CD, the producer told me to include one 'pop' tune, and he had the guitarist and me play 'simpler' solos on that one song. Guess which song is the one most purchased and played?

Yes he can. Find the track Bright Sky from his Jeff Lorber days and THAT is the Kenny G I wanted to see at The Front Row. I paid a scalper for 2nd row seats in the beautiful theater in the round with a stage that made a circle every 2 minutes. The Rippingtons opened. Russ Freeman TORE IT UP!! Jeff Kashiwa was playing sax for them, since Freeman can only play either guitar or sax for live shows, and totally showed Kenny G up. Then out came pretty boy. His first song was a kicker. Then he went all Celine Dion on us. I left during the 4th song. He had started repeating licks already, and he found a way to work his circular breathing into EVERY song. As I would say to Mariah Carey, "I am impressed that you can sing a whole piano. MUST you force feed it into EVERY song?" I mean, I'd get tired of Wagyu Beef if I had it every meal. Make it be special.

He is the best technical player I ever saw, but he is also the whitest dude in America. Holding that soulful instrument in his hands and putting it into his mouth, and all that came out was flat, uninspired, white milk, white bread, vanilla ice cream music. Impressed by his skill, bored by his music. I paid $75 for that $30 ticket and I left during the 4th song. I am Slovenian! We as a people squeeze a nickel 'til the buffalo bleeds. And I left during the 4th song.

Kenny G is an accomplished sax player. His early days with Lorber prove that.

He found a commercial niche that made him a ton of money.

I can't find fault with that, I play commercial music for a living and don't make a ton of money

Early in my career someone told me this:

You can play for yourself, you can play for other musicians, or you can play for the general public. If you are good enough you will get the audience you asked for.

I've been playing popular music for the general public for most of my life, and have made a living doing music and nothing but music without having a wage-slave day job.

If someone told me I could be dirty, rotten, stinking rich by playing technically competent but uninspiring 'easy listening' music, I'd do it.

Unfortunately, I wasn't invited to that party

Insights and incites by Notes

Notes, I've been told that I sold out because I was playing in a wedding band. But as they were making $25-$50 a gig I was making in the hundreds, thus I just laughed all the way to the bank.

If you want to make money playing music you must play what the audience wants, i.e. know your audience. Period!

Think about all the talented session musicians through the years that have made a living recording "elevator music".

While in the military I met a musician that participated in those types of recording sessions. He loved it as he saw it as "easy money" while maintaining proficency. He enjoyed working with his band mates and thought many of the arrangements were technically sophisticated.

It's more about attitude than anything else.

Mario, I would play in a wedding band, but I wouldn't want to be the band leader. Tell me what to wear, when to show up, what to play, and I'll do my best. But I don't want to do the wedding business end. A bridezilla can be a huge problem.

Most of us have to "sell out" to make a living. Even Beethoven and Mozart catered to the tastes of their sponsors and the prevailing norms of the day, while pushing it only slightly to the future (and getting dissed for that).

I know a guy who went to one of the finest culinary institutes in the country. He's managing a pizza joint. It's making a lot more money than fine dining did. In this town, he could barely eke out a living creating 'art food'. The critics loved it, the customers wanted hamburgers.

I've been accused of selling out by people working 40 hours per week, so that they could play jazz in a club on Monday night. Meanwhile, I was making a living playing popular music and not working a day job. Tell me who is the bigger sell out? I guess that's a matter of opinion.

I've known a number of famous musicians who listen to jazz or classical when they aren't working.

Ian Gillian and Jon Lord of Deep Purple wrote a "Concerto For Group And Orchestra" and performed it with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. But "Smoke On The Water" sold zillions more copies.

There are the few who can play 'art music' and make a lot of money doing so. There are those who can play 'art music' and make a comfortable living. And there are those who can play 'art music' and need a 40 hour per week day job to support their habit.

Me? I'd rather play "Yakety Sax" for the zillionth time than have a day job.

I make a living doing music and nothing but music. Furthermore, I enjoy playing pop music as much as I liked playing 'art music' (jazz and classical) when I had those opportunities.

In our duo we play Rock n Roll, Disco, Big Band Swing, Jazz, Roots R&B, Blues, C&W, Mambo, Merengue, Samba, Calypso, Soca, Reggae, Beach Music, Motown, Classic Oldies, Doo Wòp, New Age, Smooth Jazz, Hip Hop, Broadway Music, and one Opera Song.

What we play depends on the audience we have on the gig. So my sax playing has to adapt to the songs I'm playing. I might be nasty and gritty on one song, and smooth and silky on another.

And I enjoy the variety, trying my best to make each style authentic.

Long ago I found out that if you are a musical chameleon, you have better chances of finding work. And the things I learn in one style of music can teach me about other styles I play. It also helps me write various aftermarket styles for Band-in-a-Box. If I've played that type of music, I have an understanding on what each instrument should be playing. And since I play sax, flute, wind synth, guitar, bass, drums, keyboard synth and voice, I have experience doing those jobs.

All of this doesn't seem like work to me. It's just what I do, and when my brain is in the music world, the time passes without me noticing it, and I'm in my bliss. I don't call that selling out, I call it making a living doing what I would do for free.

Insights and incites by Notes

Did the O/P's question get a little 'off topic'? Just asking

No, that never happens here.

I think we did answer the original question, though.

I was the band leader for many years. All five of us voted on what to wear but not what to play, We let each musician play what they wanted as long as it fit the song. We never had a problem. Four of the five were together for years but we went through many bass players!

If we ran into a bridezilla, and we did run into a few, we just didn't take the gig. The lost didn't matter as we had more gigs then we really wanted.

I work weddings for my church. I have pretty good luck with brides.

We did have a groom that was a piece of work though. I understand they were separated 2 months after the wedding.

...Deb

We did one wedding for a bridezilla who was a catering manager at a Holiday Inn.

The wedding reception was held at a waterfront restaurant. When she arrived there she started yelling at the help "Those flowers were supposed to be over there", and other trivial things like that.

The mood of the crowd fizzled out and never recovered.

------

On the other side of the coin we did a wedding for a couple, and the father of the bride who hosted the event put "overtime until we drop" on the contract.

The cake didn't arrive, no problem, so they went out and bought a sheet cake from a close-by grocery store.

The father of the bride danced with every girl from the youngest tot to the oldest grannie.

We went 6 hours, everybody had a great time.

It's all about attitude and these folks had the right attitude.

------

Notes

And you would have also put in 150%, because it was so worth it.

I don't ever want to be the business contact again.

I booked a wedding in 1991. It was a $3000 date. We took a $1500 deposit to hold the date open. I called her twice in the interim to get the requests for first dance and all that. I called her 2 weeks before just to check in and reassure her we would be there.

Thursday night before the wedding, the guys went out for the bachelor night. They hit a tree driving home. The Best man died and the groom was in critical condition. Friday, the day before the event, she called me and asked for her deposit back. I explained, as gently as I could, that the deposit was not refundable, that we held that date open for her based n that deposit, that it was already Friday and there was less than a 1% chance that I could get another job the next day, that we had in fact turned down a weekend engagement because we were booked for her wedding the next day, and that 5 people pay bills and feed kids based on that income, that we were not at fault for their decision, and that the deposit was also eternal, meaning that when they got a new date (implying, but not saying, "IF he lives") we'd still play the date for just the balance. She launched into a tirade about how heartless I was and everything you can imagine. I said I would make phone calls and try to get a job for the next night and if she chose to not keep us on contract for when/if the wedding happened I would refund to her the difference of her deposit and what that last minute date paid. I think I did everything I could to accommodate her. Of course I felt bad for her circumstance, but I didn't do it! Business is business and sentiment is sentiment. Sentiment is not acceptable currency when the electric bill is due. The music community here was split half and half on how they viewed me after that story made the rounds. I was either a good businessman or a [*****].

I would make the exact same decision today. A contract is a contract, and hire a bus rather than drink and drive.

He DID live, they DID marry, and we DID play their wedding. And she apologized for the way she yelled at me, that she understood the business aspect now, etc. And I hugged her and said she owed me no explanation, and handed her a card we all signed with a $100 wedding gift in it. They came out to see us play about once a month after that. I teased her the first time they came out saying "Shouldn't you be home making babies???" And she said "Hey, we came out to see you often before the wedding or we wouldn't have known you to ask you to play it!"

That veered into a wedding story, so I guess to tie it back to topic, I will add "I play sax"....

We once booked a wedding ceremony and reception at a elegant countryside venue with a lodge, acres of grass and trees and a guest house. The guest house was “operation central” where the band met with the bride and her mother to go through the afternoon’s final details. It was also the backdrop to the ceremony.
The meeting soon turned into a shouting match with the bride yelling that if we played the mother’s song we would be fired and the mother yelling the that if we played the bride’s song we would be fired!
I think we played a medley.
Their relationship must have been truly challenging because the bride had a cake for her friends and the mother a cake for her’s.

The worst wedding we played was for a couple where the mother of the bride did not approve. The bride's parents didn't show up and the site of the room where the rest of the bride's family sat were rude. They just sat there, mostly with arms crossed all night. I felt sorry for the new couple.

I've played a lot of good weddings too, but we tend to remember the bad ones because they are the unusual ones.

Before playing the reception on one particular wedding, I played "A Time For Us" on my alto in a big church with lots of reverberation. That was worth the extra money, and if it wasn't my business, I would have done that for free just to hear the reverb.

Playing the alto sax brings this back 'on topic'

Notes ♫

Another wedding story...

The bride chose her recorded selections for the wedding.

Grandmother would not have it. She wanted her 12 year old grandson to play piano. No one stood up to grandmother.

The poor kid was terrified of all those folks watching him. He was intimidated by the grand piano we had available. He would only play his keyboard. He must have had the minimal of lessons and only played chords.

Grandmother was happy. The bride was angry.

...Deb

That reminds me of the funniest (to me) trumpet story I ever read, and it was told here by our own Mac. It's a long time ago and I hope I do it justice:

Mac plays trumpet and was first chair in an all-state orchestra. The part called for a C trumpet but he only had his Bb (that's not difficult for us if you know how to transpose). He played a solo. The conductor said, wouldn't that sound better on a C trumpet? So Mac took out his mouthpiece, passed the trumpet under his chair, put the mouthpiece back in, and played it again on the same horn. The conductor said, "Ah, much better".

Matt, please tell me that conductor is now out of the music business...

I was once sitting at home on a Saturday, doing not much of anything. At 4pm my phone ringie dingied. It was a guy I had known for several years bu7t never worked with, and in fact he was the leader of a rival band in the day. He said "East (Eastside) I am in a bad jam. My keyboard player just had his appendix out and I have a wedding tonight. Can you come and fake your way through charts to play the dinner set and then we get to the stuff you know." I said "Sure." So I quickly shower, dress and go. I got there and set up like 10 minutes before we were supposed to start. The dinner stuff was easy for a keyboard player, as the sax carried most of the leads. Green Dolphin Street, Satin Doll, etc... The dedication song was "Endless Love", which I had heard several million times on the radio but never played. He said "It'll be fine. It's charted out and I know you read." So I spread the thing out on the top keyboard, loaded a beautiful Rhodes sound on the Mirage, and off we went. Following along the Bb chart, singing in my head "Love... there's only you in my life...." as he went through the schtick "And the father of the bride, Fritz Sheckleman" or whoever they were. Then we got to the bridge. I followed along to the page marked bridge and it was NOWHERE near what I was supposed to be playing. As I started to panic, faking my way through by ear and familiarity with the song, I started looking at pages, and page 3 and 5 were out of order. So they were laid out 1-2-5-4-3, and to not take my hands off the keys, I played through a 15 minute rendition of that song as everybody came through the line to be introduced following it along out of order. We had a pretty good laugh about that.

So move forward 20 years. That guy was then doing a solo act with just him and his geetar. I had a friend visiting from out of state who grew up here and wanted to see him because of the nostalgia. We went into the place he was playing, out on a big patio. (His band had a local hit called Funky Poodle which he wrote, so I have always called him Poodle, short for "The funkiest poodle of them all".) We walked in just as he ended a song and he looked over and said into the mic "And the Eastside is now represented." as I pointed at him and just said "Hey Poodle". 10 minutes later I sent a note up with a waitress that said "Can you play Sittin' On Bay Dock The Of?" And he laughed. When he came to say high on his break he said "And I know EXACTLY what that meant!" Funny moment with a really nice guy.

Topic relevance: He DOESN'T play sax!

Much of what has been said about Sax, Trumpet and other horns is also true for guitars.

As a general statement, hand my guitar to Jimmy Hendrix and it will sound like Jimmy Hendrix. The signature sound you would expect from a certain artist is mostly about the artist and not the instrument.

Obviously, the final sound from an electric guitar is a function of many parts in the electronic system signal flow through from the interaction of the magnetic field produced by the pickups and surrounding metal to the final speaker in the system. Having said that, pretty much what ever the set up anyone would recognize BB Kings vibrato.

Volumes have been written about microphone selection and placement for recording both electric and acoustic guitars. The more money you have the more mics you are likely to have for better or worse. Millions have been spent on room acoustics.

Bottom line, good horn players can produce whatever sound is possible. String players can do the same.

Nine nine percent perspiration one percent inspiration. Playing a musical instrument well is simple, all it takes is studying and playing around seven hours a day seven days a week for seven years. If you are a fast learner you can cut that seventeen thousand hours down to around seven thousand hours. Work will make you great, talent will make you exceptional.

Billy