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OBJECTIVE.
I have been doing lots of research on the net about pc usb sound interfaces that are MULTI CLIENT CAPABLE. But what i’m finding if i google using that line multiclient etc etc i’m surprised that either info is limited or scant or old. Do your own research though.
In summary , as multi client drivers are an issue for some new pg users , i thought it might
be nice/appropo to come up a list of interfaces that ‘were’ MC capable…so i would ask everyone to contribute if your device is MC capable.
SO FAR.
What ive managed to glean from my research is the following devices are MC capable..
..ni komplete series.
..rme devices.
..i believe my audient device is mc capable as i never have a prob with multiple programs open at a time…but i’m going to email audient this week to confirm.
.. i believe focusrite are ? not sure.
..what about maudio ?, motu ?, steinberg ?, universal audio ?, solid state logic ?,...
Presonus ?, ik multimedia ?, roland ? ,tascam ?,antelope audio ?,art ?, zoom ?,...
Arturia ?, mackie ?,rode ? what about usb mixers ? eg Allen/heath/yamaha/behringer etc ?
I know the landscape is changing , i just hoped it might be useful for new users to point them at this thread who might be having problems or just researching a new device.
In summary please contribute if you know definitely your device is MC capable.
What i find very interesting is how many devices its difficult to nail down whether they are MC compliant or not, from google research....which is a big issue for many music production project studios.
Best
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/16/22 04:34 AM.
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Interesting question. I assume you are requesting if there is a vendor-specific Multi-Client ASIO driver supplied with each of the devices from these companies? In other words, you are not suggesting a third party driver.
For my Presonus interfaces, I really don't know. My first guess would be that the Steinberg devices would have that.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt.
Yes native multi client that comes with the interface.
What has astounded me frankly is how difficult it is to root out this info on various interfaces.
For example i just went to a major manufacturers web site…and all it says is the normal
feature mac and win etc etc. its like some deep elite secret/club thats difficult to find out….lol.
Try for yourself matt going to web sites and youll see what i mean.
Considering this feature is so important to music production for lots of people…i’m
amazed vendors dont have it up in lights on their web sites.
Happiness
om
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One way to go, if this were important to me, is ask my Sweetwater rep.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt.
maybe your pro audio gear rep is very experienced.
But Its all hit/miss eh ? depends who the interface buyer deals with.
I just looked up “multiclient ”. ” on several web sites selling oodles of pro audio recording gear, and once again found scant info.
I suspect many calls to pg support each year are related to sound interface set up problems.
And weve seen a constant stream of posts from users year after year on these forums as in “help my sound card/interface wont work with bb and/or realband”.
So whats your solution to cut out the number of forum threads/support calls on these forums ?
Which often result in very lengthy threads on these forums ?...as well as lots of time expended by pg users spending their time trying to help a person with problems ?
Maybe one idea is to add a “ryder” to the pg requirements section of the web site, plus add a section in the bb/rb manuals/videos re multiclient as well.
A basic problem of course is a lot of people buy any old interface without carefully considering
multiclient needs. etc etc.
Anyhoo it looks like the behringer uphoria interfaces are multi client from my research. Maybe users of such can confirm.
obviously lots of users want to have open at the same time many music software apps...thus its a dogs breakfast.
Best
om
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Use the MME driver choice for BIAB and save ASIO for any other digital audio program that you must run at the same time that records requiring low latency.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt. But your solution isnt addressing what loads of small studios want which is... Multiple open programs running low latency asio drivers at the same time with respect. For example my audient interface gets 4ms or less latency. I havent pushed it.. Cos i’m happy. Reading today i seem to remember that motu m series apparently is rtl of 2.5ms ?? This is very impressive. And what lots of producers want in bb/rb/reaper/whatever their daw of choice is…. Ie all active at same time. THUS the crazy long “ive got a problem” threads on pg forums will continue with mme. Cos ole Mme just is not what loads of people want due to latency. Mme frustrates loads of users if one peruses lots of threads on pro recording sites. its time to consign mme to the tech that was dustbin cos its a relic of a bygone era. Ps… This is a very interesting document from microsoft relating to audio stack, api, and driver improvements in windows….and low latency. as of december 2021. (for anyone reading this thread it gets very techy with programming examples). https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/audio/low-latency-audio Best om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/16/22 02:23 PM.
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Oh yes, I agree that the MME / WDM standard is old. And I thought you might be discussing its use in BIAB here, or even the WAS driver, but perhaps not.
What 'loads of people' want in those 'loads of small studios' might not be what is needed; it might only be what they were led to believe they needed.
If those people have a DAW, how many programs need to be open at once to record? And if they aren't recording, why does low latency matter? It doesn't matter in post production. And you don't need software anymore to avoid latency; get an interface that supports Direct Monitoring. Finally, you might have seen this statement near the end of the article: "In summary, each application type has different needs regarding audio latency. If an application does not need low latency, then it should not use the new APIs for low latency."
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt.
Sigh…OF COURSE i’m aware that not everyone needs MC.
But, per the title of this thread , this thread is for people who DO need MC.
And to provide a list of MC capable sound devices that might help people. not people happy with old mme.
Frankly pg support must have the patience of saints, because every year they prolly have to deal with lots of new users with sound device config issues.
Which is why i thought pg simons config vid was a good idea. Even better if it addresses the issue of MC….needed by lots of people.
If you notice large swathes of users dont reply often when , on these forums, a new user requests sound device help. Its the same on other forums often.
Often its only stalwarts such as rharv and a few others that reply.
such threads can end up very lengthy and thus lots of time is expended.
The basic issue is people trying to use some junky sound device and wanting it to perform tasks it was never meant to do, and then sometimes blaming any probs on pg software.
Same occurs sometimes too on other music daw etc software forums .
it was the same when i worked in tech with end users who wanted a 10 mill solution for 10k....lol
If i get time maybe i’ll contact this year the leading manufacturers of usb sound interfaces as to whether their devices support MC.
Best
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/17/22 01:17 AM.
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OM, not sure if it would help, but I can confirm that both MOTU 828MK3 and Micro Lite use multi-client ASIO drivers. That has been confirmed by my use and directly from MOTU. Also, with Gen 3 units, Focusrite is also multi-client ASIO. Also confirmed directly through Focusrite.
In practice, I am typically using BIAB, RB and Cakewalk all at the same time, transferring tracks back and forth. One thing I have found is that you have to be careful with how your sound cards and USB ports are set up. Never checkmark to allow anything to have "exclusive" control of anything.
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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All I’m doing is answering your direct questions to me.
I agree there could be better support here and elsewhere for setting up digital audio studios. And I would love to see a chart of what is supported by each of the common sound card vendors.
I’m just not as sure about creating a need for this when many can do just fine without it. But go ahead.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Jeff.
Your post and details is exactly what i was hoping many people would post in this MC thread to help other users. What about the impressive motu M series ? any info ?.
The reason i’m suggesting threads like this and others that help users is i often ponder how many sales does a company loose if a potential customer reads on the net bout the probs some users had with some music software.
Thus sales can be lost. Which can mean less investment by a developer. Things can be easily misconstrued by potential customers of a company reading on the net “xyz software didnt work”. Whereas in reality it was the users
incorrect purchase decision of the wrong sound device as an example.
This happened recently to my lovely wife who read on the net confusing customer ratings on a product. Wonderful through ‘its terrible’. As it was inexpensive she got it anyway and was ecstatic.
Matt.
Its all good. Best to you. I’m just concerned if pg might loose sales due to the example above,
Ie the easier it is for a new user to config the correct sound device then the more such a customer is likely to recommend the software to other musos. Thus pg prospers, and we all benefit by seeing even more nice features over the coming years.
om
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In over 50 years of recording, I have come across the term, MULTI CLIENT CAPABLE. I see people trying to guess what you mean by this but I will not try. If you could provide a concise definition, it would be appreciated. I did find this old Gearslutz thread where no one knew what it meant either. Gearslutz thread
BIAB 2024 Audiophile, 24Core/60CoreGPU Core M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP/color]
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Mike. Sure.. i hope you find the following interesting given your deep experience. Let me say this applies to windows only as i dont know obviously the deep nuances Or internals of mac os //core audio. So…the basics of the issue why multiclient (for brevity MC)...? Lots of win users want to run multiple music apps “concurrently” and “fluidly”. For example biab AND a daw (reaper/1/realband/cubase etc) and other apps. So they can move easily between each and have multiple apps open at the same time… And the KEY being one music app running not locking out use of other music apps. As i understand it, by using a MC driver , thus, the music producer can achieve above. Ie multiple music apps running concurrently. One aspect ive not been able to nail down from my research is IF each app has to run the same sampling rate and bit depth. In win , and one reason i test any new sound interface before i buy it via renting… I can test not only the performance but also if the driver is MC capable. for further info on MC you might want to read following.. https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=32560and i understand some sound devices use the following MC driver. https://www.thesycon.de/eng/usb_audiodriver.shtmlfrom what ive seen a user wanting the MC feature should confirm with the manufacturer of the sound device whether it has MC drivers. cos as i said at thread begin, and as youve found out, info is scant. of course , one final thing, if we address rtl (round trip latency). there will always be rtl irrespective of driver. and we must all remember win is not a real time os, and software developers have to follow the filling buffers model of course etc etc. i think the lowest latency sound device ive found on the net is the slate digital..less than 1ms i understand. the sands are always shifting mike..lol. ps...you might find this interesting from a microsoft employee pete that also owns a sophisticated recording studio. its an interesting multi part read. obviously he knows his stuff. it covers many aspects. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/windows-music-dev/unofficial-windows-10-audio-workstation-build-and-tweak-guide-part-1/best om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/20/22 02:42 AM.
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... Lots of win users want to run multiple music apps “concurrently” and “fluidly”.
For example biab AND a daw (reaper/1/realband/cubase etc) and other apps.
So they can move easily between each and have multiple apps open at the same time…
And the KEY being one music app running not locking out use of other music apps.
As i understand it, by using a MC driver , thus, the music producer can achieve above.
Ie multiple music apps running concurrently. ...
That's the way I understood your question. Unless I missed it, or my points above were not clear, you have not yet addressed my question as to why someone cannot do this at present using only the ASIO low latency driver on the one digital audio application that is doing the recording. None of the other applications one might choose to have open concurrently (and I question the wisdom of doing that while recording) need low latency. Could you please address that? Thanks.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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All. From digging around using google….i came across this interesting lynx pcie interface That includes a MC feature in its feature set apparently. The driver info is recent it seems. https://www.lynxstudio.com/downloads/aes16e/windows-driver-v3-release-13-for-pcie-and-thunderbolt/Ive never used one but it looks very interesting. obviously there is a demand for MC by various studios. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 04/20/22 02:06 PM.
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Focusrite Scarlett 18i8 1st gen owner here. Not multiclient.
3rd gen Scarlett are.
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... Lots of win users want to run multiple music apps “concurrently” and “fluidly”.
For example biab AND a daw (reaper/1/realband/cubase etc) and other apps.
So they can move easily between each and have multiple apps open at the same time…
And the KEY being one music app running not locking out use of other music apps.
As i understand it, by using a MC driver , thus, the music producer can achieve above.
Ie multiple music apps running concurrently. ...
That's the way I understood your question. Unless I missed it, or my points above were not clear, you have not yet addressed my question as to why someone cannot do this at present using only the ASIO low latency driver on the one digital audio application that is doing the recording. None of the other applications one might choose to have open concurrently (and I question the wisdom of doing that while recording) need low latency. Could you please address that? Thanks. It's clear this thread is not relevant to you, so why not just sit it out rather than hijacking an opportunity for users to share useful information? Interfaces I have used: SSL: yes Behringer UMC: yes Steinberg UR28m: NO One thing to note is that while the Behringer and SSL support MC, I have found there is a usable limit of only 2 or 3 clients at a time (as opposed to the infinite clients RME claims to support). For this reason, I still run everything -- except my primary DAW -- through Voicemeeter.
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... Lots of win users want to run multiple music apps “concurrently” and “fluidly”.
For example biab AND a daw (reaper/1/realband/cubase etc) and other apps.
So they can move easily between each and have multiple apps open at the same time…
And the KEY being one music app running not locking out use of other music apps.
As i understand it, by using a MC driver , thus, the music producer can achieve above.
Ie multiple music apps running concurrently. ...
That's the way I understood your question. Unless I missed it, or my points above were not clear, you have not yet addressed my question as to why someone cannot do this at present using only the ASIO low latency driver on the one digital audio application that is doing the recording. None of the other applications one might choose to have open concurrently (and I question the wisdom of doing that while recording) need low latency. Could you please address that? Thanks. It's clear this thread is not relevant to you, so why not just sit it out rather than hijacking an opportunity for users to share useful information? Interfaces I have used: SSL: yes Behringer UMC: yes Steinberg UR28m: NO One thing to note is that while the Behringer and SSL support MC, I have found there is a usable limit of only 2 or 3 clients at a time (as opposed to the infinite clients RME claims to support). For this reason, I still run everything -- except my primary DAW -- through Voicemeeter. Thanks for the info and welcome to the forum. You couldn’t know from many other threads (and years) that this is very relevant to me and I would love to get more information, including a tutorial on why some believe this is important.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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All.
RE MULTI CLIENT ASIO….AUDIENT.
Good news…I just heard back from audient confirming the drivers for their usb audio interfaces are multi client !
I thought i might test their tech support turnaround at the same time.. Impressive ive found.
And NO before someone asks i have no link to them other than as a user.
I’m just a happy user for the last year.
same as i tell all and sundry bout how i use pg products.
cos ive done so many songs with em'.
as always i recommend with any new gear , rent it for a month to see works well with your recording rig.//ymmv.
Best
om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/30/22 01:30 AM.
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