These external fully contained digital multi-track recorders are ideal setups that are affordable, no steep learning curve and are focused on making music without the necessity of complicated, costly computer studios while still providing full integration between a computer DAW and the unit.
Particularly well suited for recording tracks without any difficulty, latency or compatibility.
If you're looking into upgrading or are new to recording with BIAB without having to invest in costly equipment and software and will be able to quickly begin to record tracks to complete songs that have BIAB backing tracks without any hassle.
Uh yea... No. The arbitrary $400 ceiling is just laughable.
I have no problem with the Tascam DP3 but the Zoom R8 gives you a choice of 44.1/48 and 16/24 for the same price—can also be used as a 44.1/48/96 24 recording interface (not that I would). Zoom R8 Recorder/Interface/Sampler
Those microphone recommendations are whack. The mic pres are just wrong for dynamic microphones rated at 150Ω output impedance. Plenty of mics are far superior for not much more money. The AKG D5 C @ $109 is my favorite dynamic under $700 for just plug in without an additional preamp and has a 600Ω output that is far better matched to either the TASCAM or Zoom. AKG D5 C
Although I'm not a fan of cheap, Chinese condensers when starting out, many are. These are as good as any, I suppose. MXL microphones
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
Uh yea... No. The arbitrary $400 ceiling is just laughable.
I have no problem with the Tascam DP3 but the Zoom R8 gives you a choice of 44.1/48 and 16/24 for the same price—can also be used as a 44.1/48/96 24 recording interface (not that I would). Zoom R8 Recorder/Interface/Sampler
Those microphone recommendations are whack. The mic pres are just wrong for dynamic microphones rated at 150Ω output impedance. Plenty of mics are far superior for not much more money. The AKG D5 C @ $109 is my favorite dynamic under $700 for just plug in without an additional preamp and has a 600Ω output that is far better matched to either the TASCAM or Zoom. AKG D5 C
Although I'm not a fan of cheap, Chinese condensers when starting out, many are. These are as good as any, I suppose. MXL microphones
$400 is just for his YouTube video. It's not his studio. His point (and dozens of others) post these lists for demonstration that complete studios can be had for less than $500 that can produce audio on par with expensive setups.
I've owned an R8 and it's a nice machine but the Tascam has better Preamps and much better recording/editing so one it's main benefits is to cut the USB cable between recorder and PC. Tascam's can be connected via USB but it's not necessary - In the intent of the video, Tascam works better because it focus's on being a digital recorder whereas the R8 attempt is to be more versatile and assumes most editing will be done on a PC.
In a direct comparison, Tascam wins here because the budget mark of $400-500 couldn't be met because of the R8's dependence on connection to PC. With Tascam, connecting to a PC is a choice, not a necessity.
Heck.... my microphone alone was that entire $400 budget.
So much for that....
Yep, so much for meeting the goal of a $400 studio. The same is true for other videos of this type with recommendations that require IOS device, PC or laptop. There's a big difference between buying a $400 mic or this $300 stand alone digital multi track recorder if you're just starting out.
On what planet in this universe is a PC required to use an R8? None that I know of. It's more versatile because it can be connected, that's all. It also handles different sample rates and greater resolution than the DP-03. Earth to TASCAM: 44.1 isn't the standard anymore. BTW, both list for the same $299 new. Because of the recent price drop, I wonder if TEAC will be dropping it and introducing a new version at Summer NAMM.
When someone is recommending mics like the SM48, the supposedly superior mic pres of the DP-03 (based on what, exactly?) won't make a difference.
Again, my problem with the video was not the DP-03, it was the microphones he recommended to hit the $400 price point.
26 years ago, when I got into digital, it was a FOSTEX FD8 and a Mackie 1604 connected via ADAT through a MOTU 2408 in between so that I could enable eight simultaneous record channels on the FOSTEX. You needed a card table to lay it all out.
I've always been a fan of portable digital recorders but I mix on my Mac, never in the box. I still have my R24 but am looking at the newer stuff that offers 32 bit float. Even though I can, I have never used my R8/16/24 as an interface. I dump the tracks via the SDHC card.
It sure beats loading an Ampex 300 into a van for remote work or a TASCAM 80-8 as I did in the 1980s.
BIAB 2024 Audiophile Mac 24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
That the R8 is more versatile because it can be connected, ships with Cubase DAW software and is an audio interface and control surface are not pluses in a PC/DAW-less home recording studio. The R8's on board, internal editing is limited to divide and trim. Anything more advanced than that is totally dependent on transferring the audio files to a DAW.
For tracking, either the Tascam or Zoom work great. For Tracking and transferring files into a DAW and integration with a PC/DAW, it's the Zoom hands down. For a home studio with no PC and DAW, it's the Tascam, no contest.
I know that you want to give good advice but you can't praise one machine over another when you have no idea what either of them can and cannot do.
I'm guessing that you don't swap files with a lot of other people. In my work, I send and receive with dozens. Many use an assortment of portable recorders that are never hooked up to a computer. This is big and more than enough to tell users to avoid the DP03 (and ancient Korg and Roland with the same specs).
Quote:
TASCAM: If you want to import audio into this unit that is of a different format, you must convert it to a 16-bit, 44.1-kHz mono/stereo WAV file
Another advantage the R8 has is that it can be run on batteries if you want while the DP03 cannot.
Originally Posted By: Charlie Fogle
That the R8 is more versatile because it can be connected, ships with Cubase DAW software and is an audio interface and control surface are not pluses in a PC/DAW-less home recording studio. The R8's on board, internal editing is limited to divide and trim. Anything more advanced than that is totally dependent on transferring the audio files to a DAW.
That is incorrect:
Quote:
…When your multitrack recording is complete, you can use the R8's internal mixer, complete with real faders, equalization, panning, and over 140 built-in DSP effects—including amp models and mastering effects like multi-band compression—to create a stereo mix with studio-quality sound.
CREATE MUSIC ANY WAY YOU LIKE The R8 is a pad sampler and rhythm machine too. Eight velocity-sensitive pads allow the triggering of up to 24 samples, drum sounds, or loops.
In addition, you can create your own custom samples and loops from recorded audio tracks. Quantization and time-stretching can be applied to ensure perfect synchronization. Three playback modes are available for each pad (Repeat, Gate, and 1Shot), and the onboard audio sequencer allows step entry when absolute precision is required.
Best of all, the R8's multitrack recorder is fully integrated with the pad sampler and rhythm machine, allowing a wide variety of production styles to be accommodated. However you choose to build your productions, you'll find the R8 to be the ultimate creative tool.
Although both can transfer files via USB, the TASCAM's app requires a PPC for Mac users — which Apple stopped shipping in 2006. The DP03 is a tired, old obsolete machine that should have been updated years ago.
An advantage the R8 has is that it can be run on batteries if you want while the DP03 cannot.
Again, really, I don't have a problem with the TSSCAM other than I would never, ever recommend buying one new. For the same money, the R8 is superior whether you agree or not. That the reviewer doesn't know this makes it yet another, ignorant fanboy rave that can be safely ignored without harm. If the DP03 was a hundred bucks less expensive, I wouldn't be so hard.
My original objection to that video still stands and that's the crappy, mismatched mics.
Rated output (both) 150Ω
Ideal output, dynamic: for the TASCAM 600Ω or higher; for the Zoom 300Ω–600Ω
Rated input impedance, mic pre — TASCAM 2400Ω; Zoom R8 1500Ω. Although not much of an issue with condenser mics, it's a big deal with dynamics. The Shure is much better matched to the R8. Again, that the reviewer doesn't know this tells me he doesn't know much at all.
I learned this stuff from Ampex engineers including my dad in the late 1960s. Here's an excellent article on the subject.
Either unit will work fine in a $400 studio. My thought is the reviewer chose the Tascam DP-03 over the R8 to not invest money into an audio interface, USB, or controller there's no intent to ever connect to a PC and the fact the Tascam has robust audio editing where the R8 has practically none. Navigating and operation of the Tascam is less complicated and easier.
From the Video summary: "Budget Friendly, mobile, internet safe, reliable, and easy to use, this home studio setup solution will outlast any PC software-based DAW platform on the market. Watch all of this video now to see how you can have a great enduring home studio setup without any of the hassles or risks of using a personal computer and or spending a lot of cash."
I believe either unit is up to the task but with the R8 shipping with DAW software, built-in audio interface and controller, Zoom is optimized to be used in conjunction with a PC. The DP-03 is optimized to be a stand alone home recorder.
I really don't get why some people think using a computer is a hassle or why it is difficult. I suppose they've either never used tape or don't remember much....
Byron Dickens
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
Byron. I agree with you …further whether a R8 , a pc, or mac…or if one loves tape sound..and has bought an old Scully or ampex or stephens or studer machine…if one isnt willing to learn the gear..then one is going to face problems. Thats the honest truth. Even with a dp03 or r8 one needs to learn menus etc. ive lost count the number of fellow musos whove said to me "i'm a muso/songwriter dont wanna learn that tecchy stuff"...to which i reply "then you'll probably have problems....even at the dp03/r8 level."
why people have probs these days is they often use any old laptop one drive, and try and load it with the kitchen sink. the KEY is carefull computer selection/config.
frankly for me on pc i'm at a happy place right now.. with no latency problems. i AM looking to upgrade ,..but in a measured way as sample libs demand pretty decent processors /ram/ssd's etc etc.
Best/peace out. om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/01/2203:17 AM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
< ive lost count the number of fellow musos whove said to me "i'm a muso/songwriter dont wanna learn that tecchy stuff"...to which i reply "then you'll probably have problems....even at the dp03/r8 level." >
Your first paragraph pertains well to this discussion about affordable computer free recording. What's your experience with entry level digital stand alone multitrack recorders that you have such an opinion?
Speaking from personal experience with stand alone digital, multitrack recorders, a recorder like the DP-03, comes with a formatted SD card and its recording inputs and track assignments defaulted so when the machine powers up and the record/play buttons are armed, levels adjusted, the unit records when the play button is pressed. Nothing else is necessary.
For the musician/songwriter or anyone that doesn't want to learn techy stuff, the Dp-03 should put him or her in their happy place.
Much as i respect you..on this topic i somewhat disagree. Some people wont even read a manual…the new generation of new standalone mtr’s manuals are upwards of 70 plus pages ? By comparison , and i know its different …but for a low learning curve my audient audio interface came with a simple card…with simple instructions… I was up and running in a few secs flat….simplicity itself.
Dont get me wrong the standalone mtr’s are great value for money with nice features. But as ive used standalone mtr’s in the past i would prolly use one on a holiday with my wife.... to get rough song ideas down….and as the muse strikes me. my personal preference is a pc daw rig running bb/rb/reaps.
Right now i’m deep at looking at vi’s/vsti’s. The mtr’s wont run them...as far as i know.
best/happiness om
Last edited by justanoldmuso; 05/02/2203:52 PM.
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
<"Much as i respect you..on this topic i somewhat disagree."> Well, actually, you never get around to disagreeing with me about the topic. The topic (YouTube Video and this discussion) is affordable gear that provides a method to make, archive and render music with no hassle. The video presentation is specific to define hassle to mean cutting the cord from PC's and internet.
<"Some people wont even read a manual…the new generation of new standalone mtr’s manuals are upwards of 70 plus pages ?"> About manuals, the DP-03's manual is 76 pages including a Quick Start Chapter of 11 pages with diagrams/ pictures from pre-power up to total shutdown. In comparison, The R8, which is designed with PC connection intended, its manual is around 140 pages. Cosiderably more complex than the DP-03 due to computer connections. The entry level Audient EVO audio interface's start guide is 6 pages.
Only folks with no experience with any audio recording will likely need anything more than the quick start guide. The DP-03 ships completely ready to record straight out of the box without any setup or audio connection. Knowing how to set the physical gain knobs, arm the physical record buttons and use the physical transport buttons is all that's needed to start recording.
<"By comparison , and i know its different …but for a low learning curve my audient audio interface came with a simple card…with simple instructions… I was up and running in a few secs flat….simplicity itself."> Yes it is different and there's no comparison. Your Audient interface is a single element of a daisy chain of connections, cables, software installs and configurations. It has very limited functionality to the overall studio setup. It's not a recorder nor a stand alone device.
<"Dont get me wrong the standalone mtr’s are great value for money with nice features. But as ive used standalone mtr’s in the past i would prolly use one on a holiday with my wife.... to get rough song ideas down….and as the muse strikes me.">
This is on topic and in this instance, you are in agreement. Multi Tracks work exactly as you detail above. In comparison, carry only your Audient interface on holiday, nothing else, and that's musically what you'll get, nothing. It doesn't function independently alone.
<"my personal preference is a pc daw rig running bb/rb/reaps.">
That's fine. There are affordable PC/Mac bundles in the price range from many manufacturers similar to a multi track stand alone device that meet the needs of a budget studio. None of them can operate without a PC connection. This discussion is for anyone that prefers to avoid PC.
<"Right now i’m deep at looking at vi’s/vsti’s. The mtr’s wont run them...as far as i know."> Since VSTi's are completely embedded into PC architecture, no Multi Tracks won't natively run them. However, today's multi track recorders can all be tethered to a PC. Some are also MIDI compliant. Some have built-in FX's, amp models and external sends and receives so any VSTi composition can easily find it's way into any stand alone, digital multi track song project.
I appreciate your perspective and think you are spot on to a major strength of stand alone recorders for remote recording. You mention it and remote recording is also mentioned in the video link. Two things stand out in comparison between an affordable PC bundle and the affordable DP-03 stand alone device.
First - Obviously, in the studio or remotely, the PC Bundle is shackled to a computer and is part of a daisy chain of devices, cables and software. Second - The DP03 stand alone can operate within a studio environment with the option to not be connected or be connected to a computer. Remotely, the DP-03 is self contained with only headphones or speakers for monitoring.
Here's an imaginary lifelike, remote scenario comparison:
Audient:
You're on a holiday cruise with your wife. You have a new, unboxed Audient EVO Bundle. (interface, cables, mic and headphones) You have access to rent wifi, internet and a laptop The rental cost is exorbitant, spotty and unreliable. You're barred from loading drivers and DAW software onto rental equipment. If it's a Mac and is compatible without adding software, you still don't have a mic stand, or pop filter.
DP-03:
You're on a holiday cruise with your wife. You have a new, unboxed Tascam DP-03. You have access to rent wifi, internet and a laptop - Unnecessary The is cost is exorbitant, spotty and unreliable. - Unnecessary You're barred from loading drivers and DAW software - Unnecessary You don't have a mic stand, or pop filter - Unnecessary You can record live stereo.
Usage: The DP-03 works ideally with BIAB Tracks, stems and mixes and you've loaded 40 tracks of live instruments, BIAB RealTracks and VSTi synth renders to work on during downtime on your cruise by adding Vocals, BGV's and guitar if brought it along.
Both PC connected or stand alone hardware devices can handle this project.
But here's the difference: The DP-03 doesn't need anything but a power outlet and headphones. Take it out of the box, power it up, arm tracks and it's instantly ready to record because it's two included condenser mics are assigned by default. Only beginners with absolutely no knowledge of recording with any type recording device will need a quick start guide. Using your previous multi track recording experience, you'd intuitively know how to operate it.
Add to that, imagine the cruise ship has a killer sax player in the band willing to provide solo and riffs to your song for a beer. Meet up with the player and record direct into a built in condenser mic. If the player happens to be a guitarist, the DP-03 has a Hi-Z direct input or mic the player's amp.
I really don't get why some people think using a computer is a hassle or why it is difficult. I suppose they've either never used tape or don't remember much....
It's easy. A complete budget home recording studio Like the Audient EVO Recording Bundle, has multiple components that require multiple accessories, cable connections and several layers of configuration. It's completely dependent on a PC connection. (Note in my comment above, if OM went on a cruise and carried nothing but his new Audient interface, he would have much musical recording success on his cruise.)
Configuring systems, optimizing systems, connecting systems and maintaining configurations, optimization, connections and avoiding former high end systems becoming obsolete with nothing more than a new OS release. An audio software like Pro-Tools can be very picky, cumbersome, and extremely difficult to master. It can be CPU hoggish and very irritating having to deal with subscriptions and dongles. The aggravation of updates that reset user personal settings over and over.
I'd guess you know these things but find the hassle to be worth it. The pros outweigh the cons for most people. Even though there's a high level of complexity, great results can be achieved. That's ok but this forum thread is directed toward those that want to focus on music and not tech stuff as OM pointed out.
Charlie. Someone running bb creating traks with a pc and trading such with a dp03 is going to need to have some pc knowledge/win os knowledge anyway…no getting away from that. Same on mac.
For me i can see myself taking a dp03 on hols…as its less gear to lug around. Then i would transfer the traks from dp03 after hols to my main rig pc at home that runs bb/rb/reaps.
But i agree i wouldnt lug a laptop/mic/interface/cables etc on hols...been there done that. The dp03 has an advantage in this respect.
Best om
my songs....mixed for good earbuds...(fyi..my vocs on all songs..) https://soundcloud.com/alfsongs (90 songs created useing bb/rb) (lots of tips of mine in pg tips forum.)
BIAB. CbB. Mixbus 32C 8 HP Envy. Intel core i7. 16GB RAM W10. Focusrite Scarlett 18i 20. Various instruments played with varying degrees of proficiency.
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We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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