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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,990
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,990 |
Mike Halloran,
How do you maintain your first vision of a song project as you heard it in your head while not letting Band-in-a-Box not influence the final product? If I audition styles those styles influence me. Saying “Nope” a lot till I hear what I need. Having used BIAB for years, certainly helps. If I don’t have anything specific in mind, then I let the Style selection process influence me. Again, it all depends on the project.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 1,990
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Expert
Joined: Apr 2017
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…
Then again..my problems with FREE suppliers continues. The key isn't enough, nor an account...it required ONLINE authentication.
They want to market to you. That’s why they do it. Whether the trade-off is worth it or not is your decision. I use a separate email account for that nonsense that I never check unless someone has just sent a verification email. Gotta keep the clutter down somehow.
BIAB 2025 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia, M1 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, LogicPro, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScorePro64/Notion6 /Overture5
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,231
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,231 |
They want to market to you. That’s why they do it. Whether the trade-off is worth it or not is your decision.
I use a separate email account for that nonsense that I never check unless someone has just sent a verification email. Gotta keep the clutter down somehow.
It's not just email authentication Mike, (I have a secondary account for that as do many folk): 1st use of the VST prompts to authenticate and it then attempts to go to their website to do so. I keep my recording set up off line after a few serious virus/malware wipe outs. Using an USB be shunt things to a web connect ed computer and back gives the added security of that device being scanned upon insertion. I have the VST installed, the email/sonible account/Focusrite account set up gave me the key but it requires that oe extra step. Not unlike SSL's regular free plug in bundle that requires a physical iLok dongle or iLok account AND internet activation. I don't "need" the software that requires that so don't go that extra step to be cookie crumbled.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,893
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,893 |
BUMMER,
needs an activation code from a current Focusrite account.
My Gen 1 Solo is out of date so no go. I downloaded, and found the license activation code by going to the website in the email which was recieved. Will be trying this out shortly.
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,231
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 7,231 |
BUMMER,
needs an activation code from a current Focusrite account.
My Gen 1 Solo is out of date so no go. I downloaded, and found the license activation code by going to the website in the email which was recieved. Will be trying this out shortly. Yep, I have all of that but not being online was the road block...the decisions one makes etc.
Last edited by rayc; 08/23/22 03:32 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,539
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,539 |
Like Mike, if I know what I want I will search for it and say 'Nope' a lot.
Not let BiaB influence me any more than can be avoided. I'll keep trying them, and if I don't find it, I'll find my next best option, whatever that may be.
But if I do get something that is close, I'll try cutting & pasting the chunks I liked to create my own version of the RT when needed, to make it even more like what I heard in my head .. it's just another tool.
However there are indeed times when I'll let it be influential (inspiring) but I am using it with that intention.
I guess I'm saying, for me, it's OK to do both, as long as that is your intent.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457 |
Maybe when I was still new to BiaB, this would happen. But nowadays, when I sit down with it, I usually have a genre in mind, and within that genre I have a few favorite styles that I will try first. So this limits any tangents BiaB may send me out on.
These days, I use BiaB as a way to create tracks that I later import into Cakewalk, where all the final adjusting and mixing occurs. One of the most valuable things about BiaB I've found is that I can mix and match tracks from different styles, and sometimes even different genres, and come up with a Cakewalk file that is often outstanding.
Take, for example, a piece I'm working on now. It's a smooth jazz piece in A major. I used various tracks from BiaB that I imported into CW as MIDI files. I imported a complete converted to MIDI style as the base, then when I needed to add more instruments, I used BiaB's drag-drop feature. Very handy.
I started out with my base tracks as fairlana, because it has a good smooth jazz groove. But I wanted harp (47 Orchestral Strings, to be specific), too. I used the harp found in healing1 and myriad. But I didn't like the sound of them together, so I actually extracted parts of the myriad track and copied them to the healing1 track, then I got rid entirely of myriad. For keys, the kb part in fairlana is fairly sparse. I wanted to add some excitement there, so I added in just the keyboard part from the m_answr1 style. I wanted something to sort of fill the middle, but I didn't want strings, so I snagged the Voice Oohs from the choclet style. And finally to enhance the percussion section, I added the "drums" from the myriad style, which are mostly percussion instruments.
Then I got to balance and mix down everything so it didn't sound like a giant gob of mush, and I think I've succeeded. The result is a nice little 7 part piece that will work well for further expansion. Now all I have to do is write a melody for it. Which will probably take longer than it did to assemble the piece.
Last edited by cooltouch; 08/30/22 06:32 AM.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,010 |
Cooltouch,
I agree with your thoughts that being familiar with what each style offers and relying on favorite styles are excellent ways to minimize the influence of Band-in-a-Box on your final song project.
However, PG Music offers new styles and RealTracks each year. While listening to the PG Music demo songs help build excitement, they also make me want to revisit completed song projects and add one or more new elements. Thus the influence is there.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Jul 2022
Posts: 2,932
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Posts: 2,932 |
Apparently I'm an oddball because I rarely "envision" a song. Just as I strum my acoustic to find interesting chord progressions (which can end up in a ballad, a punk song, a pop song, a rock song or anything in between), I "strum" the keyboard in BIAB and play with different styles, realtracks, and arrangements until the song itself tells me what it wants to be. The working title for my tribute song "Surviving your idols" was "Heavyrock in 3/4" and it's probably the softest ballad I've written in a long time 
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,103
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,103 |
I've only produced about 20 songs total. When it comes to the groove, the tempo and the rhythm, I usually know what I'm after and search until I find it or until I find something as close as possible to what's playing in my mind, especially the drums and bass. On those few songs where I couldn't find RD's or wanted more control, I used EZ Drummer matched to a RT Bass that fit. What gets tricky are the pushes, and the shots, and the holds, and getting them to sound natural.
But once the foundation is there, I'm open to experimenting with any number of RT's. Now if the song depends upon a certain guitar riff or strumming pattern, I'll play and record that part. That's the case for a song I'm working on now. For that same song I found RD's and a RT Bass, but I'm not sure which RT guitars and keys will end up fitting the best, and so I've exported a couple dozen RT wav files for import to Studio One. I'm fairly sure I'll be able to edit those RT's to fit the various sections of the song.
What's not always planned though, and what BIAB really helps me with, are the instrumental breaks and sometimes the overall arrangement. On a bluegrass style track - which I never considered to be a bluegrass song when I wrote it, but those RT's fit, so I guess that's another instance of being influenced - but that song needed an instrumental and embellishment from a mandolin and lead acoustic guitar which were beyond my abilities. Hey, add a few bars and chords with solo RT's and you're done!
Having said all of that, I got up way too early, once I start to 'hear' the music coming out of the speakers which was previously only in my head or only ever a vocal and an acoustic guitar, I can't help but to start evaluating and possibly changing what I originally planned.
Scott
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381
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Expert
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,381 |
Apparently I'm an oddball because I rarely "envision" a song. Just as I strum my acoustic to find interesting chord progressions (which can end up in a ballad, a punk song, a pop song, a rock song or anything in between), I "strum" the keyboard in BIAB and play with different styles, realtracks, and arrangements until the song itself tells me what it wants to be. The working title for my tribute song "Surviving your idols" was "Heavyrock in 3/4" and it's probably the softest ballad I've written in a long time This. I suppose there are many ways to "be" a band. But most of the documentaries I've seen or articles I've read describing the way a band puts together a song is mimicked by the way I approach BIAB. In some ways, I'm the junior member, even when it's my song. I get the final say, but "the band" is more than welcome to influence the outcome. If I could play and arrange everything, I would. Unless I didn't want to.
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