This guy is talking blasphemy, he says computers are are fast enough and storage is big enough these days to handle greater than 44.1khz. Using 48khz 24bit that's crazy man talk, isn't it ? He says you are future proofing yourself using 24/48 Most people here using the 16/44.1 Audiophile version and the BiabVST have slow old hardware from the 90's don't they ? PG said that 44.1khz 16bit is fine that's all you need.
I think the very first user request after the Audiophile version was released was, can we please get it in 24-bit?
I'm not so concerned over the 48K sampling since I don't do video but I wouldn't turn it down, nor a higher rate format if offered. One consideration would be to keep the size of supplied drives down, but that's another discussion with another set of variables.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
This guy is talking blasphemy, he says computers are are fast enough and storage is big enough these days to handle greater than 44.1khz.
I watched the video, and I believe that I understood the content and the intent, but I don't follow why you suggested that he 'is talking blasphemy' (presuming you used it in the sense of an insult that shows contempt, disrespect). Could you clarify that part for me please?
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
The video popped up in youtube so I watched it and fell off the floor It's everything that I have posted soooo many times for sooo long but I just feel the clinging on to old ways gets in the way of it all. The moto is PG users have very old hardware therefore we cannot develop technology beyond their limitations, hence the guy is being blasphemous You watched the video and understood the content and the intent, NOW get through to PG that he is really not being blasphemous do some study on your Audiophile and post some info showing PG how it can be done and work out the hard drive size needed and whether they could use wavpack instead of wav to get the same quality but a smaller size, because they may listen to you rather than me because I nag too much and they get sick of me and ignore me, but you guys are nice and polite and could explain it in a gentle way You guys need to go through all the posts and study, try it all out and experiment that's how you can give helpful development info, it's too hard for me to keep doing it all, I get burn out
I remember the massive long forum topics on 64bit that they were saying that Jbridge is fine there is no need for 64bit no matter how many users said no they wanted 64bit. Then of course they were forced to 64bit when apple band all 32bit apps. Hence the mentioned future proofing. He is stating the obvious but but the feeling I get from here is "oh no we don't need to do that it, it's fine for the home hobbyist". Like that guys not a home hobbyist, he knows what he is talking about.
If the Audiophile was 48khz 24bit and the BiabVST worked with instant play/gen how much more would it be used in a professional studio environment ? It's the same deal with fake time signatures.
It's like so called misinformation & disinformation that's all turning out to be true yet people were cancelled by the "Ministry of Truth" getting on to twitter, facebook and youtube to get them to cancel these users accounts.
I saw this a few days ago and he makes a pretty good sensible argument for going 48k 24 bit. My main interest was that I purchased an iPad Pro recently to take away on a trek and allow me a reasonable device for generating music. I was a bit surprised to find it will not allow 41.1k at all. It defaults to 48k 24 bits.
I’ve seen a number of arguments over the years but the general consensus these days seems to be 48k as more services are trending default to this now. It is after all the video standard. I found his discussion on 96k interesting but most discussions on 96k seem to agree that there is little advantage for most genres.
Just some observations.
Tony.
Last edited by Teunis; 10/23/2207:18 PM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
…The moto is PG users have very old hardware therefore we cannot develop technology beyond their limitations …
I don’t think that’s true at all. Can you give an example where the company said that? But I don’t know what ‘Moto’ means to you.
And there have been recent discussions with the developers about how best to deliver a large amount of large files, with alternatives. The discussions have been polite and we expect them to be productive.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
For some the following will be obvious, for others it may be informative.
There are so many layers to the digital audio cake that it's very difficult to give a definitive answer, though I certainly agree that 24bit 48k is probably the minimum we should really be working with. I'd always rather downscale than upscale at the final cut.
Where the definitive bit gets particularly tricky is that the data is not the only factor. Another very significant factor is the behaviour of the convertors to and from analogue. The root cause of the differences at this point are due to the way real sound and the digitisation process can interact. Specifically, if one has an audio sound at, say, 40kHz, it's well outside of the range of most people's hearing, but it you sample that sound, whether at 44.1kHz or 48kHz, you will get an interference signal from it right smack in the middle of the audible bandwidth. A similar but usually less serious issue arises at conversion back to analogue.
The analogue to digital conversion must filter out any signals like that before taking the samples. The problem that then arises is that filters themselves also affect the sound and the harder one makes the filters work to stop those unwanted frequencies, the more the effects of the filter itself become audible.
The faster one can sample, the less severe those filters have to be, so a 192kHz sample rate will be cleaner than a 96kHz sample-rate will be cleaner than a 48kHz sample rate. However after that point, downscaling the faster rates to 48kHz should make no real difference to the content.
When comparing 96kHz to 48kHz the question then arises "what causes any difference to which you are listening ... the sample-rate or the filter?" (or indeed the expectation). And unless one can answer that, the comparison is of dubious value.
Any time we manipulate the content of the data stream we degrade the signal a little. Our DAWs probably work 32-bit float, which helps to minimise that, but it would seem a great shame to tie the output from the DAW to 16bit 44.1kHz before sending it for a final mixdown. That's about as low a quality as one would want to go, but the mix guy will manipulate it further.
There are occasional threads about support of FLAC audio files. FLAC would allow 24bit 48kHz data to be compressed to a similar size to 16bit 44.kHz WAV, so media size should not be an issue. Old computers might be, though increasingly less so I would have thought.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
The moto is PG users have very old hardware therefore we cannot develop technology beyond their limitations
I doubt very much that that statement is absolutely correct. I am certain that minimum system requirements have not remained static and are continually updated. This is clearly reflected in their own literature. If I can reasonably interpret 'very old hardware' then that would not meet this criteria.
Just a question if I may: How familiar are you with the input from the forum members SolidRock and Pipeline? Both of whom contributed valuable input to the forums. Please share.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
The moto is PG users have very old hardware therefore we cannot develop technology beyond their limitations
I doubt very much that that statement is absolutely correct.
I agree, but I do note that PGM try very hard to maintain a direct compatibility with version from many years ago and I think that ties their hands (or at least they perceive that it does).
I commend them for that, but also feel that there are ways and means to decouple from what has become a bit of a straitjacket.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Guys you can't see the forest because of the trees, don't focus on the digs and humor, moto, that is just a bit of satire, focus on the actual issues.
Quote:
Currently Band-in-a-Box will run on just about anything - pretty sure it'll run on a potato. If we program BB to render everything in realtime, then our users who are still running some very old computers will need a faster CPU, more Ram, faster hard drive, etc.
This was suggested for the BiabVST and most of them would be on high end DAWs. Though there is no reason why it would not work for Biab as Reaper will play Biab files or 48/24 in realtime on WinXP off a USB 2.0 hard drive and it did that back in 2006, plays fine on a 1.9GHz Celeron Win7 laptop with a 5400rpm HD. Biab now has Util tracks that play 16 wav files back direct from hard drive, I think it was even converting them to 32bit. The guys over at reaper spent a little bit of time and made reaper play back wma files direct, Biab could do that also I would of thought.
..And there have been recent discussions with the developers about how best to deliver a large amount of large files, with alternatives. The discussions have been polite and we expect them to be productive.
I just hope it's well thought out to future proof things, like multichannel file formats for compressed and Audiophile that supports more than 10channels. That will be the same type compatible on Win and Mac.
..And there have been recent discussions with the developers about how best to deliver a large amount of large files, with alternatives. The discussions have been polite and we expect them to be productive.
Just a question if I may: How familiar are you with the input from the forum members SolidRock and Pipeline? Both of whom contributed valuable input to the forums. Please share.
I think you may be asking your question to at least one of them <grin>
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!
... Just a question if I may: How familiar are you with the input from the forum members SolidRock and Pipeline? Both of whom contributed valuable input to the forums. Please share.
I think you may be asking your question to at least one of them <grin>
Only one of them? I would guess that it's more likely to be all three of them
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
This guy is talking blasphemy, he says computers are are fast enough and storage is big enough these days to handle greater than 44.1khz.
I watched the video, and I believe that I understood the content and the intent, but I don't follow why you suggested that he 'is talking blasphemy' (presuming you used it in the sense of an insult that shows contempt, disrespect). Could you clarify that part for me please?
Because it's simply not true what he's saying, it's blasphemous, see below for an explanation. That's why I still use 32bit Biab wma and JBridge, all the rest is marketing hype. WMA is a standard format that I can use in any audio app, look at the file size below compared to wav and 24bit 48khz wavepack, wma is the best option, it's nice and small and sounds good to me, isn't that why Microsoft made this ? OMG if I could still purchase the DOS version I would have it made. wma 6.6meg (Winner) wav 44/16 72meg (loser) wav 48/24 118meg (loser) wavepack 48/24 61meg (loser)
Originally Posted By: PeterGannon
- There are many audio expert articles on the internet showing that, for distributing audio, 44.KHz 16 bit (which we use) is equal to higher bit rates like 24 bit. 48khz etc. - of course in a DAW you bring in these files and edit them in a higher bit rate environment (24 bit, 96KHz etc), but once they’re finished editing and complete, shipping 24 bit files vs 16bit is no better. No detectable difference heard by audiophiles in the tests done. -of course we record and mix them in higher bit depth, I’m just referring to how they are shipped after they are finalized.
- based on that, I don’t see any benefit for us to be switching the audiophile version from 16bit to 24bit, and we don’t plan to.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean