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It's important to be commercial if you want to make a living at it. Here are a few tips (not all of them - feel free to add your own): - Know your market, and play the music people want to hear. Songs they know by heart
- Read the audience of the day. Look at their shoes, the way they dress, how they style their hair and everything else - these are all clues
- After you have read the crowd, play something safe, something that always works, and see how that goes over -- give them more and during the night you can try some things slightly out of their comfort zone to see if they work or not
- Then pace the crowd, mix slow, medium, fast, and specialty songs to give the audience what they want, when they want it, even if they don't know when they want it
- Start on time, do not take long breaks, even be flexible, if the audience is having a great time, skip your break
- Play at the appropriate volume for the gig and audience
- Dress appropriately
- Be friendly and kind to everyone
- Price your services not too low, or too high. At first, before you have a reputation, use the going rate, as your reputation grows, if you are indeed better than most of your competition, you can ask for more money.
As a band, you are a small business in the service industry. You want to have a better product than the rest, and you want your audience to have such a good time that they come to see you again. If playing for a restaurant or bar, you want to focus on making the cash register ring. In your mind, pretend that you are getting a percentage of the money it rings up. That helps you make your best decisions. What makes you go back to a particular business that you are loyal to? Use that to treat your clients/audience the same way you would want to be treated. Yes, it's about making music. And yes, it's about having fun while you are playing. But without treating it like a small business, you won't get to have that fun as much as you want. I enjoy playing music. Pop music, jazz, classical, folk or whatever. When the song starts, I get into that place where there is no space, time, or me. It's the most fun I can have with my clothes on. And treating it as a business, gets me more gigs. The average duo gigs 4 or 5 times a month in the two deadest months around here, August and September. We did 16-18 gigs in those slow months. And we're still doing 19 this month (just got another) When I was young, someone told me this. You can play for yourself, you can play for other instruments, or you can play for the general public. If you are good enough, you will get the audience you asked for.Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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Technology has reached the point that the bands that have recorded some pretty intricate music with way more parts than people need tracks to sound like the band people are there to hear. It is only common sense to have the tracks there to support the songs. Is it cheating? I guess that is a point of view. Using 40 tracks and overdubs is cheating too then. It is very common in almost every concert involving a 'band' that there are tracks being used. Certainly some genre's do not lend themselves to this. Bluegrass is probably a good example as said before. But that music is much simpler from an instrumentation standpoint (not that it is simple music), it can all be replicated on stage just as it was recorded in the studio. Musicians that play the parts that are being done with tracks are certainly left out in the cold and the unions have done what the could for this. As someone mentioned Broadway. A keyboard guy and tracks could probably do any show, but the union won't let that happen thank goodness for those people whose jobs were saved by that.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
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etcjoe, thanks for mentioning recording.
There are plenty of songs that cannot be played by a live band, because the recording studio became a musical instrument.
I think this seriously started with the Beatles and George Martin. Devices like throwing snippets of tape in the air, splicing them together, some backwards, in the "Mr Kite" song.
Practices like this opened the door for all types of studio tricks that can't be produced live. Is that cheating?
It escalated from there. It used to be that recordings emulated live performance. As time went by, this concept was abandoned, and reproducing a live performance was no longer a concept. Many songs are assembled now instead of played. Is that cheating?
What is cheating? A digital tuner? Auto-tuned vocals? Harmonizer? Looper? Quantization? Compression? or any of the other wonderful tech toys we have at our disposal?
I guess that's all a matter of opinion.
Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Technology has reached the point that the bands that have recorded some pretty intricate music with way more parts than people need tracks to sound like the band people are there to hear. It is only common sense to have the tracks there to support the songs. Is it cheating? I guess that is a point of view. Using 40 tracks and overdubs is cheating too then.... Thing is, of those "40 tracks," that's not 40 different parts. 10 - 12 of them are often drum mics. The bass often has a DI in addition to the miked amp. Guitars might have 2 mics on the cabinet and possibly a room mic and a DI too. Often those parts are doubled. There might be several different takes of a guitar solo so the producer can pick the best one. Possibly several takes of other parts as well. It all adds up quickly.
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In 1976 Queen toured A Night At The Opera.
They left out a bunch of songs because they couldn't play them live without them sounding thin or denuded but did do a little section that used tapes to represent the OTT choral sections of Bohemian Rhapsody. They made this clear in advance section and even stepped behind a back light screen to "project" the sense of the video.
Brian may used three delay pedals for the Brighton Rock multi guitar section.
Each was a step forward in the use of technology to augment playing live.
Recordings stopped being archives of live performances a very long time ago and only the lucky, connected, wealthy or patronized performer could stump up for a FULL "live" version of the recording - see Brian Wilson's Live Pet Sounds shows, (the ticket prices reflected the size of the band).
The topic is exhaustively addressed in The Recording Angel: Music, Records and Culture from Aristotle to Zappa by Evan Eisenberg (published way, way back in 1987 but contemporary enough given the topic).
Beato is a knowledgable fellow but he's also inclined to post click bait topics or just rants when it suits his purposes.
Last edited by rayc; 10/31/22 05:02 PM.
Cheers
rayc
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Beato is a knowledgable fellow but he's also inclined to post click bait topics or just rants when it suits his purposes. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you probably didn't watch the video. It definitely wasn't click bait or a rant.
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Beato is a knowledgable fellow but he's also inclined to post click bait topics or just rants when it suits his purposes. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you probably didn't watch the video. It definitely wasn't click bait or a rant. I agree with Bob 100%! I've watched a LOT of Beato videos and never felt any were click bait or overly self-promoting! He always produces videos that deliver useful information in an entertaining way!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 11/01/22 07:13 AM.
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I've also watched a significant number of Rick Beato's videos. I never figured any of them to be either a rant nor click-bait. The material I have viewed is extremely well researched and always professionally delivered.
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This guy uses lots of backing tracks, ...except they're all of him.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzIXi94TkUgI sure do like that guitar he's playing.
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Yes, Josh Turner is an excellent multi-instrument talent. I have seen a number of his videos and they are all excellent.
I got banned from Weight Watchers for dropping a bag of M&Ms on the floor.
It was the best game of Hungry Hippos I've ever seen!
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I agree with everything Rick Beato said. He gets it.
Lots of good comments in the thread, so I'll try to avoid saying what's already been said.
I think it's cringeworthy to hear somebody try to pawn off an entire pre-recorded song while miming the vocals and pretending to play the instruments. But I enjoy hearing a talented singer/ musician play and sing along with trax when its clear that he/she is actually adding the same thing to the show that he'd be adding if the rest of the music was being played live. It takes talent to play and sing well no matter WHERE the rest of the music is coming from.
Likewise I think it's hard to listen to a full band when any of the members are terrible. So it isn't the full band that makes it listenable or objectionable, it's the presence or absence of talent... and the more talent there is on stage, the more I'll enjoy it.
As far as the question of "cheating" is concerned: cheating implies that rules were broken. The venue makes the rules. If they don't want backing trax, the people who use them will never get on that stage. The next hurdle is the audience's standards. If the audience hates it, they won't be back, and that means the performer probably won't be back either. The fact that the use of backing trax has become so common tells you that audiences and venues generally accept their use. Beyond that, its just personal preference.
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Good point. There are no "rules" in art. There are norms and some follow them and some break them.
So if there are no rules, how can there be cheating?
If enough people like the art, it's good, even if I personally disagree.
After all, the point of art it to reach other people.
Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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<< It takes talent to play and sing well no matter WHERE the rest of the music is coming from. >>Exactly. I'll post a link below to the hottest 'trio' playing along the Grand Strand of SC. This is the band the other bands come to watch. The band 'displays' as a three piece group but it's anything but that. Most times their entourage totals about six people. Three stage performers, Sound Technician and two Road Gear Techs for load in and load out. The sound tech and guitarist share production and direction of the show and the sound tech is a performer the same as the stage crew. The guitarist creates loops and sets the tempo for every song. He custom builds his guitars and they include midi controllers and pickups that are professional grade. The on stage performers are excellent singers and musicians but the guitarist is world class having won GuitarWorld's 2009 international guitar contest. He has a nice pedal board but there's a second pedal board that's rack mounted behind him that's triggered by the sound tech. The sound tech also triggers samples, recorded tracks and Wave digital effects for the stage from a wireless tablet controlling a 32 track digital board. In performances, there's stacked backing vocals, doubled vocals and digital effects prevalent throughout. A trio is what the audience sees, but not what they hear. They are a complete show performance. A stage show with lights, sound and action. They are very busy and following FB page, it's not unusual for them to perform 12-15 shows in a three or four day period. Most weekends they'll perform 3 gigs either Saturday or Sunday. Use headphones to listen. It's not overdubbed. It's recorded from the mixer during the performance. SouthSide Saints Band Promo
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Sensational performance.
As Rick indicated in his summation on backing tracks: 'as long as they do it well'.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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<< It takes talent to play and sing well no matter WHERE the rest of the music is coming from. >>Exactly. I'll post a link below to the hottest 'trio' playing along the Grand Strand of SC. This is the band the other bands come to watch. SNIP SouthSide Saints Band Promo Wow, that's awesome Charlie! I see that as a good example of effective use of trax to give talented performers a much fuller sound. There's only so much that a spectator can process anyway... with 3 people to watch and that wall of sound, I doubt the average audience member will ever come away disappointed or under stimulated. Remember, we're talking about the same audiences that are OK with a DJ. It works for the band. It works for the venue. It works for the audience. Whats left to criticize, except based on personal preference? Comparing this to an act in which somebody lip synchs and pretends to play along ... well, it's not a fair comparison. The lip synch scenario should be judged separately. THIS (the linked video) is the perfect marriage of technology and the arts in my opinion.
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Those guys have really got it together. I'm sure they'd put on a fine show.
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Pros
The Band is always ready to rehearse.
The Band always plays what they are supposed to.
Nobody drags or pushes the tempo.
I can add or subtract players quickly.
Small gig footprint opens up more venues for certain players
All the $$$ go to you.
Cons
Making quality backing tracks is HARD work.
You can't purchase many useful ones.
Rehearsing the band is hard work. Lots of heads and solos to learn
You need more tracks per unit time than a live jazz band at a gig.
You need quality gear to make it sound like a real unit.
Certainly others can add more in both columns.
All in all, they work for me. I get some gigs using them.
Making and rehearsing the tracks keeps my brain stimulated
I still have some time to play live with other musicians.
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Pros
The Band is always ready to rehearse.
The Band always plays what they are supposed to.
Nobody drags or pushes the tempo.
I can add or subtract players quickly.
Small gig footprint opens up more venues for certain players
All the $$$ go to you.
Cons
Making quality backing tracks is HARD work.
You can't purchase many useful ones.
Rehearsing the band is hard work. Lots of heads and solos to learn
You need more tracks per unit time than a live jazz band at a gig.
You need quality gear to make it sound like a real unit.
Certainly others can add more in both columns.
<...>
I'll add a couple: Pros: You don't have to put up with the musician who shows up late or takes long breaks You don't have to put up with the one who is more interested in chasing the opposite sex than playing music In most local areas, people in smaller groups take home more money per person than in larger groups. Cons: Since you make the tracks yourself, you deprive yourself from the surprise musical input of the other musicians who would be playing those parts If the dance floor is full, and it would be a good idea to extend the song, you can't do that. ----------------- I agree that making good tracks is hard, and it's time-consuming, sometimes difficult to get right, but I wouldn't call it work. Work is schlepping the gear. I've purchased a few, but spent almost as much time "fixing" them as it would have taken to start from scratch. Plus when you make your own tracks, you know them inside-out, every chord, every substitution, every drum beat, every bass note, and that helps you when it's time to improvise your solo. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Cons:
Since you make the tracks yourself, you deprive yourself from the surprise musical input of the other musicians who would be playing those parts
If the dance floor is full, and it would be a good idea to extend the song, you can't do that.
Notes Norton hit the big one right on the Head The input of other musicians in a live setting definitely goes missing playing with tracks. I lamented it for awhile, now I pursue that feeling in other projects that are 100% live musicians. As far as extending/contracting a song on stage, that's no longer a problem. I perform with 320kbps mp3 tracks stored on ios devices. With the playback software I use I can easily extend/truncate/loop portions of a song. At the gigs I use it to extend choruses of improvisation. At practice, it allows me to loop sections that need more work. I can adjust tempo if need be to make sure a section is exactly how I want it. This "con" can be solved pretty easily.
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eddie1261
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If the dance floor is full, and it would be a good idea to extend the song, you can't do that.
I agree that making good tracks is hard, and it's time-consuming, sometimes difficult to get right, but I wouldn't call it work. Work is schlepping the gear.
Good stuff as usual Notes. But let me lay out a scenario and see what you think. Unless the situation is that the dance floor fills up DURING a song you would really like to extend, don't you see anything trending that specific songs find the dance floor quickly loading up when you start playing it? (Here's a text version of the flow chart from the nerd.) IF that is true that (I'll say some song here) Twist And Shout always loads the dance floor... (IF no stop reading. IF YES keep reading.) then you could go into your song file, copy and paste an extra chorus, verse and chorus into it so you have 2 more solo spots to extend the song, and call it T&S-EXT? Then when you see the crowd has the potential for a lot of dancers coming out onto the floor you load T&S-EXT instead of T&S. Of course if you are playing for a crowd not motivated toward the dance floor but appreciating you almost exclusively from the seats, you load T&S. I know what you mean that you can't decide mid bridge to extend the song playing live with tracks. We used to have a thing where when we played our cheesy Elvis spoof of Viva Las Vegas I would watch the crowd, and if they were hanging around on the dance floor I would sing, in key, "But is he good for one mooooooore time" and we'd pick up on the vamp and do a go around. There were nights the crowd joined in on the silliness and we milked that song for 15 minutes. One night some girl from the crowd brought up the cape she was wearing that night and wrapped it around our singer like an Elvis move, and as he started off the stage I did my schtick and he threw the cape off to sing more "Vivaaaaaa Las Vegas". Good times in that band that we couldn't do with tracks. As far as the cons, most nights I WAS the guy chasing the opposite sex so I can't speak to that. As far as making the tracks being work, I'd call it work in that I spend time on it, but it IS part of the job as much as sitting in boring IT meetings talking about things we already know about used to be. I don't really prepare tracks for live performance like you do, but as much as I like to play producer I play with stuff a lot. There was a jazz guy from Sacramento named Cecil Ramirez who sadly passed away from pancreatic cancer about a year ago. He used to stream on Sunday nights during Covid and then make the streams available for streaming as reruns. His 2nd album, that never got released due to his passing had a song called Faces In The Mirror. I downloaded the stream, snipped that song out of the hour, and loaded it into a DAW. In playing with it I took the B section and swapped it with the A section. I then sent it to him with a note that "This just seems to flow better to my ears when these sections are swapped." His reply was "Oh man, you really have me thinking now. I like that better too. I don't have to pay you for that little bit of production, do I? LOL" He was a great guy. I miss him. But to topic, there are bands who use tracks and bands who don't. It's a matter of personal taste. I personally would rather see 5 or 6 people on stage who can play, sing, AND work together to make the collective sound good, if only because it means more musicians have jobs. And my preference for original music (with the implied degrees of disdain for covers) has been on display often here. Still comes down to "You do you" and make YOUR life happy, not mine.
Last edited by eddie1261; 11/03/22 05:46 AM.
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- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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