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>>>....Most musicians who play fretted stringed instruments prefer TAB to standard notation...>>>
This is not true at all. I have been playing all my life and I do not use tab at all. Dozens of musicians of my acquantiance would say the same thing.
Tab is way to limited to be useful to me. It not allow for changing keys or even positions on the neck. It does not allow for playing the same tunes on guitar, banjo fiddle and mandolin, which I frequently do. At bottom, I am just not interested in learning to play the way another might do it. Tab just in not flexible enough.
I too am surprised to read that jazz guitarists use tab. Just does not fit with what I beleive jazz to be.
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Bob, has done a good job layng this topic out. Kudos to you guy.  To a jazz guiatrist it is all about voicings - so many way to play the same notes that if you want to communicate the "fingering" you have to show the Tablature (Tab). Of course the Tab does not show the note duration and many other musical itesm, so the standard notation is needed also. Then having an application which shows the animated fretboard display synched with the Tab is the cherry on the cake - if you are making a video. Don't understand the problem stated with Guitar Pro, this program does all this very nicely. I suspect there was a bit of a learning curve which had to be achieved.
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Whoa flatfoot,
I didn’t say ALL fretted stringed musicians. You are personifying what I said about “frequently maligned and often misunderstood “.
Since almost all TAB includes standard notation, everyone gets what they need to learn to play.
I also play several instruments, but I think harping against TAB is an elitist thing. Telling a budding musician that they have to learn an inferior method of notation, (std. notation), is the same as telling them they aren’t welcome to the “club” unless they learn to read it. (If you need clarification on “inferior”, just look at my post using a G scale as an example!)
I use both, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find a majority of any fretted stringed instrument musicians to say they prefer std. notation outside of classical or jazz. Why make learning an instrument any harder than it already is?
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Quote:
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>>>....Most musicians who play fretted stringed instruments prefer TAB to standard notation...>>>
This is not true at all. I have been playing all my life and I do not use tab at all. Dozens of musicians of my acquantiance would say the same thing.
I too am surprised to read that jazz guitarists use tab. Just does not fit with what I beleive jazz to be.
Good points. There is actually a very funny video (can't find it now) of several recent (70's) Guitar Gods playing their licks. then the "...little numbers on the lines " are taken away and they can't play at all.
Then the famous joke; "How do you stop a horn player from playing?, - take away his sheet music". followed by "how to you stop a guitar player from playing?, - put the sheet music in front of him".
And finally, several years back I completed a certificate course in Jazz Guitar from Berklee School of Music - ~50 % of the course material was in Tab. 
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Dan, Quote:
Of course the Tab does not show the note duration
All the way through GP4, the TAB had note stems and values. When GP5 came out, they adopted what you see now. I had numerous email exchanges with the guys at Guitar Pro, and they promised me they would "fix" it in the next release. They didn't. Even tho I have GP5, I still use GP4. It's better in a whole host of ways.
Quote:
Bob, has done a good job layng this topic out. Kudos to you guy.
Thanks Dan. I appreciate that. I tried to be very thorough in that last explanation.
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 07/22/11 04:09 PM.
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Quote:
All the way through GP4, the TAB had note stems and values. When GP5 came out, they adopted what you see now. I had numerous email exchanges with the guys at Guitar Pro, and they promised me they would "fix" it in the next release. They didn't. Even tho I have GP5, I still use GP4. It's better in a whole host of ways.
.
I am working on GP v6 right now and have never seen note stems on TAB? Perhaps there is a button to push which I have never used? Otherwise, as you know, it is very common to lay out both Tab and Standard Notation together.
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Dan, Just look back at my post on the G scale, #325100. That's GP4 and you'll see the note stems. GP5 and GP6 don't have it. GP4 is also customizable on spacing between ....... , well, everything....  and font size of whatever you wish to change. GP5 and 6 aren't. I increase the spacing between the TAB lines and increase the font size of the numbers and make them bold. You can also turn off std. notation or TAB. Whichever you prefer. (In GP4).
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 07/22/11 04:38 PM.
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flatfoot, Which one these better conveys to the student what they should play? The TAB or the std. notation?  (Note: I didn't "doctor" the std, notation. That's just the way it came out.) Dan, Take note, (pun intended), of the note stems on the TAB. That's GP4.
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 07/22/11 05:27 PM.
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No doubt about it, for the student, tab is the easiest and fastest way to convey to him what you want him to play. Many of the transcriptions I have are in tab. Easiest way to learn them. I like the the stems on the tabs, too. Never seen them before. Very cool.
That being said, I've never had a gig, and there have many over the years, where the MD gave me my part in tab, and if I had asked for it in tab, I suspect they would have gotten someone else. Now that's a completely different situation from practicing. It's work, and you're paid to play what the arranger's written.
But for the student, or someone who plays for his or her own enjoyment, or plays in a group where nobody reads, tab is the way to go, for sure. But at some point, if the student is serious about learning his instrument, he'll need to learn how to read.
And Dan, I know a few guitar players here who attended Berklee (I assume that's where you meant in your post) and they are excellent, I mean EXCELLENT readers. And the cats can blow. They never had tab when they attended back in the 70's. They had to learn how to read, or leave. It's different nowadays, and I mean that in a good way. The students learn faster. But believe me, before they graduate, they better know how to read.
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Quote:
Bob, has done a good job layng this topic out. Kudos to you guy.
Yes he has!
Quote:
Don't understand the problem stated with Guitar Pro, this program does all this very nicely. I suspect there was a bit of a learning curve which had to be achieved.
I was hoping to be able to have a blank sheet of say 24 bars (no music in the bars) and then be able to take my chords that I created on the left side and drag them onto whatever beat in whatever bar I wanted.
I couldn't see a way to do that.
I also couldn't see a way to name the chords I created, using my own names.
BIABguy
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Quote:
I was hoping to be able to have a blank sheet of say 24 bars (no music in the bars) and then be able to take my chords that I created on the left side and drag them onto whatever beat in whatever bar I wanted.
I couldn't see a way to do that.
I also couldn't see a way to name the chords I created, using my own names.
Here is GuitarPro V6 with my attempt to reproduce what i remember seeing in the original link. This is standard notation, TAB and animated Guitar Fretboard all working as GP does it. Makes for a nice video.
this is simply for practice and teaching purposes. We have come a long way from working out in the woodshed.
Chord Melody in GP
Composing and arrangeing for Guitar does require some considerations, not all things go, as we only have four fingers and unless you have monster hands some intervals just don't work. This is best summed up here:
http://musicianwages.com/the-working-musician/music-notation-for-guitar/
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>>>...I didn’t say ALL fretted stringed musicians....>>>
Yes, Bob, I know. You said "most." This was the statement with with which I disagreed.
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Those who have access to a good guitar MIDI pickup and controller can set pgmusic products guitar settings to Multichannel, which puts each string on a different MIDi channel and also automatically knows which "G" you play on which string. It will then notate accordingly.
If you don't have a MIDI guitar setup, you can still set the notation options to Multichannel and then be able to better designate these things, but it will take a lot longer to implement with the mouse and keyboard.
--Mac
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>>>...Which one these better conveys to the student what they should play? The TAB or the std. notation?...>>>>
When I want a student to use a certain fingering, I add the fingering to the standard notation. I can do this using notation software or by hand. Same for bends, ties and slurs.
Last edited by flatfoot; 07/23/11 07:01 AM.
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Quote:
Those who have access to a good guitar MIDI pickup and controller can set pgmusic products guitar settings to Multichannel, which puts each string on a different MIDi channel and also automatically knows which "G" you play on which string. It will then notate accordingly.
If you don't have a MIDI guitar setup, you can still set the notation options to Multichannel and then be able to better designate these things, but it will take a lot longer to implement with the mouse and keyboard.
--Mac
Of course, ala our man Carlos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VxCPlfV1lA&feature=related
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Dan,
Nice job on the video.
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Quote:
Quote:
I was hoping to be able to have a blank sheet of say 24 bars (no music in the bars) and then be able to take my chords that I created on the left side and drag them onto whatever beat in whatever bar I wanted.
I couldn't see a way to do that.
I also couldn't see a way to name the chords I created, using my own names.
Sorry for the confusion here Dan.
My initial post was about reproducing the video I had mentioned.
But I also wanted to know if GuitarPro could allow a user to create their own sheet of guitar digrams, which comprised of custom chords, with custom names, and input over a staff on beats to their liking.
So first create say, 20 custom chords. Then drag the chords anywhere on the sheet at any bar/beat.
Quote:
Here is GuitarPro V6 with my attempt to reproduce what i remember seeing in the original link. This is standard notation, TAB and animated Guitar Fretboard all working as GP does it. Makes for a nice video.
Good job Dan!
It is different however from the video I posted.
In the video I posted the audio was from a 1960's recording.
In your video I believe you are taking the midi from the notation input, and using that to generate your sounds?
Quote:
Composing and arrangeing for Guitar does require some considerations, not all things go, as we only have four fingers and unless you have monster hands some intervals just don't work.
Yes it does.
I noticed in your video that there were some 'un-guitaristic' fingerings/chords.
Did you play them live, or did you construct them another way?
TIA
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I think I know what you want to do overall here, I have been there myself and still attempt to do this. I agree we have been all over the block with lots of good stuff in this thread but at the root is still the objective to TRANSCRIBE a recording (note for note) with a NOTATION SOFTWARE. Bottom line, this is a chore - no canned-package will do this for you. Technology just ain't there yet. So we are left to attempt to simulate the old fashion way of using our ears with pen and paper - with what ever tools exist. The effort I showed you in Guitar Pro V6 was all GPv6, including the sounds. The arrangement was the authors and the composing was - well who ever wrote Somewhere over the rainbow. with the program you can enter note for note the entire arrangement, in any of the three formats - Tab, Standard or Freboard. If you enter one form, all the other two are automatically completed. Then you can edit any of the three and all others adjust - exactly what a Notation Program will do for you. Besides being able to then print the score, most Notation programs (all modern ones) will then allow you to play the score as a midi file. Many Notation Programs will allow you to store predefinded Chord structures and insert them. GP has a very good feature for this. Also Finale Notepad I believe has this feature so I think it is common. Personnaly, I would nOT begin this effort with BIAB. I think there a better designed tools for this job and BIAB's strengths lie in other areas. Good luck, keep looking, let us know what you find. But in the meantime don't let the lack of the tool stop you from using your ear and pen and paper. dan
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Well I can't christen the software that did that, and I play around with a lot. However the original transcription was done by Gilles Rea. If any one can read French, you might get more information from this website. http://web.me.com/gilles.rea/music/transcriptions/transcriptions.html
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Quote:
Well I can't christen the software that did that, and I play around with a lot. However the original transcription was done by Gilles Rea. If any one can read French, you might get more information from this website.
http://web.me.com/gilles.rea/music/transcriptions/transcriptions.html
It has already been confirmed it is Logic on the Mac OS. ...long thread ain't it?
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