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Yes it takes talent to make it, and many have made it without formal training. My point, again, is that we know how beneficial it is, let's try to keep it if we can.
Like I said, cuts will run deep soon, and many simply won't be able to keep it. But if you have a choice; I'm for it.
Thanks you for your service GDaddy.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I wasn't brought up privileged. I wasn't poor but I thought we were well off. I didn't know any better till I met other kids and went to their homes. My mother and grandmother brought me up. We owned a house in Queens, NY. To me, that made us rich. We didn't have a car. Only the richer people had cars on our block. My father had a car, but that got sold when he died.
It was the same with school. I got into Band in Junior High and we had to buy our own mouthpieces, but my mother rented a tenor sax for me from a music school/store, because the school's sax was unplayable. It had rotten pads and crud all over it. It smelled up the whole house.
My mother went the extra mile for me. That's what I meant in a previous thread that I carried my sax along with all my books 20 blocks in any weather back and forth to school. It was my sax. It was rented, so it was mine. I could never leave it at school. It would have been stolen.
I'm not trying to sound like Abe Lincoln, but we had no school busses in the city. Only the kids that were bussed in for integration had busses. All our books were ancient and from other schools and out of date. Most of our books didn't have covers anymore. We never thought about it. We thought we were ahead and modern. We were kids.
The only thing that wasn't falling apart was the building. All the things inside were old and never enough to go around. We had up to 40 kids a class. Many had to stand. We thought all schools were like that.
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Very nice.
Thanks!
More than very nice.
Excellent performance captured.
Last edited by rharv; 08/06/11 06:22 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I think most of us of a certain age have pretty much the same story, Wayne. When you live in s certain way, and everybody around you is the same, the things that you have become "the way it is" and you don't know different until you get out into the world. Personally I wouldn't trade my youth for anything. Music in my grade school was a joke with nuns that had no clue, outside of the choir nun. She knew music. High school was a whole new game.
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Eddie, Quote:
I have to ask this question so I have a sense of perspective about the other major contributors to this discussion. How many of you were at all privileged growing up
Well, as far as privileged, I was almost 8 before we had running water and indoor plumbing. My parents bought the house across the street for $3,500.00. Indoor plumbing and all! Dad was a coal miner and mom was a housekeeper for the funeral home, which paid $5 a day.
My mom bought my first guitar for $52.00 at the sporting goods store, or over two weeks of her salary after tax. Dad’s left hand was crushed in a coal mining accident, but he could still play Wildwood Flower in quarter notes, but nothing else. That was my first guitar lesson. I was 11. My best friends cousin was in high school and played in a garage band. The cousin would teach songs to my friend, and then my friend would teach them to me. We were doing pretty good until his cousin got ran over and killed by a drunk driver. We then had to start figuring out songs on our own.
I got a job at 16 and bought my next guitar, a 12 string Terada, which I converted to a 6 string. I taught myself from there. I won’t bore you with the rest.
Me learning to play had nothing to do with school, because we couldn’t afford an instrument for me to play in the band. I learned to play the hard way, …… because I wanted to play.
But I was privileged to have 2 hard working parents who loved me and my sisters, and always made sure there was a roof over our heads and food on the table. I was pretty lucky indeed.
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Quote:
How many of you were at all privileged growing up and how many went to the School of Hard Knocks where you were taught by Professor Street Smart?
Great question. Early on we had less than nothing. My parents store got burned down (in Detroit around '68) Growing up we played street hockey with a tin can. Not one of those flimsy pop cans made nowadays, a real tin can. They lasted longer. I can remember my mother's shin bleeding from getting in the way of one. Hey, it was a tie game and I wanted to win. Don't judge me.
Do to my parent's perseverance and dedication, I feel I was privileged overall. Thankful for that.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Detroit 68 pretty much equals Cleveland 66!
Looks like a lot of us came from nothing!
Makes it all feel better when you look back, doesn't it? I think we all know we were more than fortunate to have parents that did whatever it took to give us a better life. I pray for mine every day. Dad is gone 20 years, mom 10. Somewhere up in heaven they are arguing like to did here, he is telling me I'm doing it wrong, and she is telling him to let me live my life my way.
We are all really blessed.
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Thank you SO much, Mac, for putting a fresh cap on this increasingly depressing thread. These kids are neighbors of mine, and I believe they can show us a glimmer of hope for the future, not relying on grants, drugs, cops, or anything other than a good ear and a knowledge that music can unlock the mind and all that it surveys and creates. Thanks again. 
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Same here Eddie, I wouldn't change a thing.
When my father died, I was 8 and he was only 40. Because he died on the job at The Brooklyn Navy Yard, it was a big deal and a government job didn't leave my mother out in the cold. We got Social Security till we were 18, which really helped. Later in life my mother got taken care of pretty well because of my hater's job. In her 60s and 70s, she had more money than I did. lol
My mother only worked part time bookkeeping. She had a lot of experience working in offices over the years. She was a Navy wife. She went with my father wherever he was stationed.
The biggest thing was that my Grandmother owned the house we lived in. They bought it sometime in the 30s for 2500 dollars.
Later my father and my grandfather put in central heat. It was one big happy working family. Then my grandfather and father passed away and it was just me and my mom. My grandmother was my second mother. Without her my Mother couldn't work. We had a good life and were very close.
My mother encouraged music in me. No one else did. There was no music in school. She bought me a little Organ and music books that she liked. It was bittersweet. She had me learn all the songs that she and my father loved. I'd play them for her and....she’d cry. It was hard trying to understand she was happy when she was crying.
It was her love of music, and she loved music, all kinds of music that got me into it.
She exposed me to every kind of music there was, except jazz.
Our home was filled with music while my friend’s houses were full of screaming. They were probably happy, but I think we were happier.
And you're right. I wouldn't trade my childhood for anything, even with my father dying when I was so little.
As far as I was concerned we were rich. We had music and we ate a lot of cake.
So I'll have to change my answer to, "I was privileged" Money wasn't everything.
She spoiled me and I got fat...lol
Wayne,
(I know, a very sappy story, but I think we all miss the way things were)
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regarding the recurring thread going on here about how bad the state of the country is...
There is a book out some may want to read titled THE FOURTH TURNING ..it is about cycles that have recurred throughout all of history. A generation of permissive parents tends to be followed by a generation of strict parents... times of disorder and chaos tend to be followed by an increased call for structure and order. etc etc etc
In a nutshell, even a pendulum only swings so far in one direction before it swings back the other way. There's no point in lamenting that life is different than it used to be... but there IS a point in predicting what GOOD things may be on the horizon.
If you only look for the bad, it's not hard to find... but its a more constructive effort to look for good every day in every situation.
Or not. Your call.
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Quote:
Well, as far as privileged, I was almost 8 before we had running water and indoor plumbing. My parents bought the house across the street for $3,500.00. Indoor plumbing and all! Dad was a coal miner and mom was a housekeeper for the funeral home, which paid $5 a day.
Hey Bob... here's another way we are alike!
Our family still had and used an outhouse until I was 13 years old. Our kitchen sink was gravity fed from a nearby stream. Dad took a long roll of black plastic pipe and wedged one end under a stone in the stream, then hooked the other end to our sink. In the spring, tadpoles would often come out of the faucet when we tried to get a glass of water. In the summer time, you could feel "things" crawling across your butt when you used the outhouse. I remember once there was a rattlesnake under the outhouse. My dad went back to the house and got his 12 gauge to shoot the snake so the kids could use the toilet.
Mom and Dad never got us involved in any extracurricular activities... we lived in the boonies too far from where everything was happening. Our little parish school didn't have a music class, art class, or any school sponsored sports. Yet, every one of the 5 kids grew up to have passionate hobbies, stable marriages, productive careers, and none of us are in therapy. Well, Except for this recurring dream of being pulled into the toilet by a monster serpent, we all turned out fairly sane.
;-)
My point is that we are the product of our own choices. When society fails to provide opportunities, it is still possible to create your own. Every loser I know blames his lack of success on somebody else. Every successful person I know had a moment when he considered his situation and made specific plans to rise above it.
Last edited by Pat Marr; 08/06/11 09:45 PM.
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in spite of the rhetoric, I don't have a strong opinion on this topic... I'm just playing Devil's advocate. Sure , I think it's a good thing when schools provide all sorts of effective ways to enrich the lives and minds of the students... including music
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Music...grades 6 to 12...free instruments.
Sports...grades 6 go 12...free uniforms...buy your own skates.
I taught English in a french speaking high school, 1971. I hated it. Quit to work in forestry.
A brother and sister both teach. 85k a year and 3 months off. Nice work if you can stand doing it for 5 hours a day. And all they do is complain. I told my whining brother not to start recently, he needs a real dose of a 12 hour shift outside a sawmill at -45 C or F it's the same that cold, piling railway switch ties which are green, and up to 16 feet long. Alone. Don't drop one. For minimum wage, and a flea infested room and bunkhouse food.
We seem to be living in fear of Monday morning. I'm going to ride out the market I guess. I mean my wife's retirement money, in a fund run by me, is not going to liquidate and go in to gold.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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No fear of Monday morning. It will come and go.
And like Pat I try very hard to see the good.
However, when you can see change coming, it's a good idea to think about how you want that change to occur and be ready to help shape it.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Quote:
However, when you can see change coming, it's a good idea to think about how you want that change to occur and be ready to help shape it.
well said!
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I just popped in and saw this thread. Wish I had piped in earlier. I had about 8 piano lessons and then my music teacher moved away. I lived in a very small town. He was a minister and played piano like no one I had ever heard. I then learned some through glee club in high school and a lot I just learned on my own, hunt and peck, finding the keys... trying to play and well..... I became our church pianist at age 16. I had only been playing for less than 4 years. One thing I heard and remembered years ago: The Richest Child is Poor without Music! Now for a piece of fun from my sense of humor: I started out years ago with nothing and today I still have pretty much all of it left.  I always loved music and only got into digital music around 1995... and BIAB and PT expedited my musical abilities quite a bit........ But I learned the MOST from the veterans on this forum... if I called their names, you would know them. But I'd forget to mention someone, so I'll just say thanks to everyone whoever helped me with BIAB, PT, RealBand....... and teaching me how to record and produce CDs. THANKS!!!!!!!!!
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Quote:
We seem to be living in fear of Monday morning.
Why live in fear of Monday morning? We spend a seventh of our lives on Mondays.
Guido
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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I, for one, would like to see strings instruction introduced into more schools. I know some “elite” schools have it, but the vast majority don’t offer it. I think the response from students would be tremendous if they were afforded opportunities to play instruments they consider “cool”, AND they could get school credit for doing so.
I paid for my son to have private lessons on piano for about 7 years, and then gave him guitar lessons myself for 3 years after that. Even though he went to private school thru his freshman year, he was never given the chance to perform on either at school. His 3 years of public school were even worse.
The schools want brass and bass drums or tom toms. The kids want to play and hear guitars, pianos or synths and drum sets.
If schools were to teach the instruments that kids want to play, I think enrollment in music courses would explode. The kids would even willingly compete with each other for a spot on a band they actually thought was “cool”, (or “kewl”)! These bands could easily be incorporated into sports, and they would be a helluva lot more popular than the standard high school band.
Instead, schools insist on teaching them to play instruments they hate and that they’ll never even touch or own after high school, (with extremely rare exceptions). Teach them to play something they think is “cool” like guitar and piano, and there’s at least a chance they’ll continue to play, or at least dabble in it for the rest of their lives. (No flaming from brass players please!)
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Brass should be mandatory. LOL.
I learned brass at 53. Best thing I ever did.
And I took piano accordion for 3 years, and piano for 6 months.
My wife took piano for most of her life up to 23, and has 2 music degrees from a famous university. Makes for some great arguments. Not to mention she has a teaching degree too. Great. Then my oldest has all the degrees. Just don't argue with him, he seems to turn anyone into a bowl of jello. Odd that.
Monday might work itself out, but it seems a bigger meltdown looms. I can still hunt and trap, have the 5000 acres I need, and I know there are at least 40 beaver and 25 or so otters, along with fish, ducks, geese, and all the partridge I'd ever need. And enough wood for about 200 years, and I can cut it, burn it, sell it...
Don't lose the faith, but have a backup plan.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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