Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,385
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,385 |
Quote:
<...snip...>
Notes, I have great respect for you as a person and as a musician. Please hear what I'm about to say in that context. Some of what's being said here doesn't jive with what's been said before
I seem to recall you saying on more than one occasion that you have been playing along with MP3s for quite some time. If there is a difference between the raw punch of a MIDI module and that of an audio file, both played through the same PA... by going to the MP3s, you've put yourself in the same place as the guy using real tracks. Once you've ended up with audio, the punch is in the mixing and mastering
There is a lot of difference between playing for a LP/Tape/CD/DVD than for playing for a live audience. I've done both, and what I play and the way I play my sax for a record is way different for the way I play my sax for a live audience.
There is a world of difference in how musicians approach playing in a studio. This is why so many great bands use studio musicians for their recordings while they play their own instruments live. Studio people know how to make a good recording, live people know how to play to an audience. Of course there are many who can change proverbial hats and do both.
Plus when recording for a CD/LP/Tape the recording engineer and later the mastering engineer use a good deal of compression, equalization and other FX to 'smooth out' (for lack of a better term) the recording. Everything seems to blend.
The main difference might be that I am not using any compression (other than the slight compression of a high bit rate mp3 file), another difference is that I have the parts mixed for a live performance, another difference is I have exaggerated the groove for live performance, another difference is I have different amounts of reverb and other FX on my MIDI instruments so that they don't blend and sound more separate (the acoustics of the room will take care of that) just like live musicians do, another difference is that I am recording the MIDI parts as if I might play them live, not as a studio session. I'm not sure as I let my ears be the judge as I play the music and play with the computer apps.
I do know that when I played my MIDI file of the Etta James version of "Shakey Ground" and followed it with the recording of Etta James singing it for a musician friend who happened to be there, his first comment was that my backing track has a lot more punch than the recording. He wasn't listening to evaluate our performance, he had never heard the song by Etta James before so after we rehearsed it, we played the Etta version for him.
Those musicians on the Etta James' "7 Year Itch" LP/CD are monsters, and I don't consider myself to be better than them by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, my backing track is an approximation, as close as I could get to the recording for the basic parts that I wanted to cover, leaving out parts for us to play live. The difference is that the recording was played, mixed and mastered for a recording, and my backing track was played, mixed and mastered for a live performance.
If I were playing to a karaoke track of the same song, it would sound like karaoke and wouldn't have the punch of my present backing track.
It's also why many of our audience members come up to us and tell us they appreciate the fact that we aren't doing karaoke like _________ (here they name some of our competitors). The audience members can tell the difference, even if they can't put their finger on why.
Again I'm not dissing RTs, I think they sound great, and I think PG Music has worked their usual magic with them. There are pros and cons to everything. If you have a car that gives you great performance, you have to sacrifice fuel efficiency. When using MIDI you sacrifice a little tone (depending on your synth) but you gain the ability to manipulate the sounds and therefore the expression of the track(s).
And for those of you who think MIDI cannot be as expressive as a 'real' instrument, remember virtually every modern synthesizer has MIDI 'under the hood'. Try telling Keith Emerson, Stevie Wonder, Rick Wakeman, and thousands of other synth players both on stage and in the studio that, and I think they will respectfully disagree.
I posted the solo of me playing synth guitar on this page http://www.nortonmusic.com/clips.html on a major guitar forum. I played it on a wind MIDI controller and a Yamaha VL70m synth module with the "turbo" chip in it. I asked the guitarists to evaluate my guitar playing, not telling them it was done on a synth. I got loads of compliments, one even told me that the guitar playing was "Jeff Beck like" (wow! that blew me away, I love Jeff's playing) and after the thread ran a few pages I admitted that I wasn't playing a guitar at all. The comments after that were still favorable with comments like "amazing", and only one person posted that there was something about it that sounded like it wasn't a real guitar, but he wasn't sure about that.
MIDI like any other instrument takes time and practice to learn. I didn't play the sax, flute, guitar, bass, drums, wind synth, or MIDI sequencer well the first time I picked each on of them up. It took practice and time to develop my hand/ear coordination. And while some people may think of it as work, I think of it as play. It is simply a matter of putting the time in it while you strive to improve your skills. The rest takes care of itself while you are playing. And I mean playing.
I call all these instruments toys until it's time to do my income taxes for the year, then they suddenly become tax deductible tools.
So for me, any compromise in tonal quality of MIDI tracks is more than compensated by the ability to manipulate the MIDI tracks, to play with them until I get something better than the original (at least to my ears). If I want that guitar to play a song specific lick at the end of the phrase, I can do it ... if I want to change a few bass notes to complement the rest of the song, I can do it ... if I want to create an accent and then a swell on the string line in a particular place, I can do it ... if I want to change that electric piano part to an 'attack clav', I can do it ... if I want to change those brass licks to piano or organ parts, I can do it ... if I want to change the 'leslie' speed on the organ from slow to fast on a particular chord, I can do it ... if I want to add a lot of chorus to that Rhodes part, I can do it ... if I want to scoop a sax note on the attack of a note, I can do it ... if I want to change that picked bass to a synth bass, I can do it ... if I want the entire 'band' to play a rhythmic 'kick', I can do it ... if I want to change the intro or the ending, I can do it ... if I want more snare drum on the 2nd and 4th beat of each measure, I can do it ... if I want a drum accent to help kick the attack of that horn line, I can do it ... the possibilities are only limited by my imagination and the MIDI tools at my disposal. I can't do any of that with pre-recorded loops.
I repeat: So for me, any compromise in tonal quality of MIDI tracks is more than compensated by the ability to manipulate the MIDI tracks. Of course, as always YMMV. There is more than one right way to make music.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove & Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,451
Posts779,351
Members39,666
|
Most Online25,754 Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|