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I fully agree with ROG and it applies as well to electrics (unless it is going to be a "project" guitar) - I only buy after a hands-on play. I suspect that applies to a lot of musical instruments. However, I do understand that there are probably some situations where it may not be that easy to do. So if you must buy mail-order/over the web - make sure you can RETURN it and without some horrendous "re-stocking fee" FWIW - I have a Guild Songbird - which is little out of your price range which I LOVE and it projects quit well for a slimmer acoustic - you'll see that Eva Cassidy played one a lot before her passing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RDmXsGeiF8&feature=relatedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYyQcQSqpbINow there is someone who could sing without auto-tune gimmkicks! Good Luck Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/11/12 03:57 PM.
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My story:
2010/2011 I was on that same road. I needed a guitar with a longer scale than most factory models offer. (I have a 1950 archtop with a neck big enough to beat somebody to death -- it is wide enough to offer ample room to accomodate seven strings and a 650 mm scale.)
I went to several stores and tried a lot of different guitars, expensive to cheap, new and used, some vintage. I always compared it with my old box. Some had more bass but less sustain. Others had a flat tone, others didn't feel right... in short: No guitar did the trick.
I made up my mind what I want and started to save. I also planned to buy a guitar for practice and a little playing until I have the money for what I really want.
At that time a store offered six 17'' archtops (laminated wood) with a 650 mm scale on ebay in three different models. No brand that I know, good reputation on ebay, not so good reputation in some of the forums. But the guitar looked good, and the given specs met my standards. And they even put the stings on that I wanted.
My limit was 250 Euros for that auction and I won the second one I entered. Now I have a surprisingly good sounding guitar -- much better than those that I tested.
So my advice is simple:
Play many guitars to find out what you want -- and to find out what you can expect for the price you're willing to spend.
Narrow it down to a specific style (flat top, arch top, 335 style, body size...). try some more guitars of your target style.
Look on ebay: A used guitar that is 30 years old and has a straight neck will maintain a straight neck -- you cannot be so sure with a new guitar. And maybe there is one for sale in your neighborhood.
Good Luck.
Guido
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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A try on your questions:
- should the ‘slimline’ models like the acoustic strat be considered or do they sound as thin as they look?
- jumbo shape? dreadnought shape?
It depends. You say you will play this mostly amplified. The sound is a combination of strings, pick, electronics, tpye of wood or plastic (Ovation), size of guitar. But you can colour the sound to your liking with additional electronics so it really doesn't matter. The major source of sound is the guitarist.
- what are the brands to look for in the gtr itself and in the electronics?
You don't need to look for brands but maybe you might need to avoid some brands -- at least for some models and years they produced them. If you would like to have some information on a certain brand or model use Google and search for musicians forums. Read several of them.
- what should I look out for in inspecting particular models in shops?
Do all strings sound on all frets or do they buzz? Maybe the neck is not straight or the frets are poorly adjusted.
Do you have influence on the action: Can you raise or lower the strings to your liking? For playing rhythm a higher action is preferred for playing lead, especially fast lead guitar, a lower action is preferred. Freddie Green playing rhythm guitar almost exlusively did have a distance of about 10 millimeters at the twelfth fret. Most guitars are sold with a distance of 2 to 4 millimeters at the twelfth fret.
Is the sound clear or dull? Does that change when you use the electronics?
When you testdrive it, play accoustically towards a mirrorlike surface so you hear the reflected sound. It is different than the sound you hear from behind the guitar.
How much slack is in the tuning pegs? The less the better.
Is there a zero fret at the nut or does the nut fix the strings to ring when played on empty strings? While a zero fret is not mandatory and not necessary in the first place it makes it easier to change stringsets that differ in gauge. The groove of the nut for each string must be wide enough for the string for easy tuning and narrow enough for good sound and the bottom edge of the stings must be at the same height. If you change to thinner or thicker strings you should also change the nut to match the new strings. A zero fret makes this somewhat easier: The grooves just fix the string on its position without any other task.
- is it true that round back gtrs (Ovation) can only be played by someone standing up?
No.
- does it really matter if the gtr is solid top or not?
Yes, if you have a particular vision of the sound the guitar should have.
Yes, if you want a certain response of your guitar.
No, for the average player.
- is it insane to buy a gtr direct (via internet) i.e. without inspecting/hearing the product before purchase?
See "my story" in my previous post. You might get disappointed or you might be positively surprised. If I have the choice I prefer to listen to the particular instrument not just to a look-alike. (They usually aren't sound-alikes or feel-alikes.)
If you have somebody you trust take this person with you as a type of emotion impediment. It might save you a lot of money and disappoiontment.
The above answers might not be complete but may serve as triggers.
Good luck.
Guido
Desktop; i7-2600k, 8 GB mem., Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
Laptop: i5-2410M, 4 GB mem, Win 10 Pro, BIAB 2017; RB 2017 - latest build
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Many thanks for these contributions.
Mac, I should have added “all other things being equal” i.e. of course I will be considering the critical playability criteria you mention, but given the choice between a black finish and another finish - all other things being equal -, my preference would be for black. Sorry that this was not made clear.
Those Rondo models are certainly competitively priced, but I’m not sure they are available to try over here (in France).
Thanks Roger/Larry – for confirming the try-before-you-buy principle. Makes sense. To me anyway.
Thanks Guido. Not sure I’d be happy buying a second hand model. I’d always be concerned that there is some hidden fault that has temporarily been patched up.
scary Scott? There would be more chance of my taking an electric drill to my own head than to my Yammy. I’m just not a d-i-y kind of guy (not for things I care about, anyway!) But thanks for the suggestion and links.
Will put in some leg work, but am intrigued about those Rondos.
Marc
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I am not a guitarrist, but would like to remember that Godin guitars have very good fame in Brazil. Famous artists (acoustic guitar players) in Brazil uses those guitars. Don't know the prices. Supose they are not very cheap. France Godin-direct France / IMS 24, rue du Barrage F-27940 PORT-MORT Tél: +33(0)2 32 53 14 45 e-mail: jboissel@ims-distribution.com
Last edited by Luiz Dias; 01/12/12 05:02 AM.
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I use a L.R. Baggs iBeam and it works great ! Put it in myself not too hard !
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Quote:
......Jim – would I be better off getting a higher grade guitar, or a lower grade guitar + high quality pre-amp to compensate?......Marc
I recommend getting a lower priced guitar and a good preamp. Even the high end guitars benefit from a good pre. I don't recommend an acoustic amp, because they cost too much for what you get imo. Get a good preamp and a full range powered speaker and you'll have a much better system imo.
But first, find a guitar that you like the neck and sound. Plug it into a full range system and see what you have. For chording/rhythm type playing, it might be all you need.
If you want more, the Fishman stuff is good for getting very close to 'microphone recorded' type sounds. The zoom unit isn't quite as good in the modeling department, but it's just as good for tone controls and effects (imo).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7bieh52dhA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUTnXqkwg3o
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http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/w...GB&ZYXSEM=0Just got this and I am very happy with the decision. I already have my Larrivee Dread, but wanted something inexpensive with built in electronics. Smaller body, slightly thinner. Sounds a bit thin acoustically, but sounds really good plugged in, especially with a chorus and delay. Nice workmanship, lifetime warranty. $250.00 Worth a look
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Quote:
I think this has been out awhile, but I just ran across it. I'm a fan of the Gibson model it's based on, and I like the NanoFlex pickup.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/e...1000?src=3XBACR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApmZ4U-4CUI&feature=related
NOt sure that the demo in the link does the guitar any favours, but thanks.
Funnily enough, this model is in my short list of 3 (Rob can vouch for this!), but what is putting me off is the electronics. I don't fully understand which pickup is routed to which output, whether mono or stereo leads are required, whether one or both outputs should be used. The Epiphone literature on the subject is far from clear*. So I don't really want to buy a guitar and then spend ages figuring out how to get the optimum sound from it.
Have written to Gibson and am awaiting their reply.
FOr the record, the other two are the TANGLEWOOD 170 ASCE (clearly a solidly built 'proper' guitar) and the Yamaha cpx500ii (a slimline but which is reputed to amplify pretty well and is exactly half the price of the TW).
will keep you posted
Marc
* Let me give you an example
The NanoFlex™ and NanoMag™ units then work with the rim-mounted, Epiphone eSonic2™ preamp system, also an exclusive design from Shadow Electronics® of Germany, which then outputs in a mono blend or from stereo ¼" jacks.
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From the Epi site:
...With your choice of either 1/4" mono output blending both pickups or 1/4" stereo output splitting the two pickups, you have incredible flexibility and opportunities to create the perfect acoustic tone live!......
I see what you mean. It appears it doesn't have a blender control on the pre-amp so that when you're using the mono jack you're always going to have a blend of both pickups. That might be it's best sound though and therefore not a problem.
The nice thing about the stereo output is you can run the bridge to a full range system, the neck to a regular guitar amp, and get a wide range of sounds at your disposal. I had that on my Parker Event.
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I accept three acoustics, a 1975 Takamine, non electronic, abundant for strumming about at the bank or at a friends. A Ovation 12 cord annular back. Beautiful guitar, sounds bad unplugged, but actual nice acquainted in, i abhorrence arena it as it is not adequate to authority while seated. Lastly a Carvin Cobalt, elec/acoustic, cool nice aural and actual nice playing.
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Just to round this one off.
I finished up waiting (and waiting and waiting..) and finally buying the Epiphone ej200 ce (black) on the grounds that this was the guitar I actually wanted.
There was some sort of major production review at Epiphone which explained the long delay in availabllity (but perhaps not the scarcity of reliable information delivered by Gibson).
I did buy the guitar from an online retailer - the biggest hitter in Europe, based in Germany (European forum members will know the organisation I am talking about) and the experience was about a trillion times more enjoyable than getting sneered at in high street guitar shops. My order arrived quickly (it was sent within an hour of my confirming payment!) and was extremely well packaged and trackable at every stage. I was even given the contact details of the staff member who dealt with my order.
Oh, and the guitar was a full 100 EUR cheaper than in the off line stores.
but that's quite enough advertising.
So far (and I only received the instrument last week) I am entirely satisfied. It appears, to my untrained eye at least, to be in perfect condition and sounds excellent when amplified. Even non-amplified I find the tone better than most reviews had indicated.
Thanks to all of those who offered advice and experience below.
Marc
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Congrats on the new guitar, appears to be a good choice, especially if you are happy with it. I'm still loving my little Washburn, and after a small solo gig with the guitar amplified, I received a lot of compliments on the sound. Best of luck with your new baby.
Rob
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Marc,
it sounds as though you are enjoying the benefits of making a well-considered decision. I applaud your approach and I am truly pleased that you are happy with the way everything worked out. I love success stories.
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Marc,
That looks like a pretty interesting pickup system - not that unlike the Taylor Expression system (minus the microphone). Shadow are a respected pickup maker.
If you paid similar prices to what they sell for here in the US, then it's a fair priced guitar. You wouldn't have been able to do much better for advertised features vs. price. The J body style should give you lots of low end, even though it's a laminate guitar.
The pickup system alone would run $200 due to the dual pickup design and the interesting way in which the bridge pickup has a pre-amp right at the bridge. I haven't seen that before.
I will be very interested to hear how it sounds. I will say that I love the Shadow P7 pickup system in my classical guitar.
And with that unique 2 pickup system, this is really not something you could have installed yourself. Most of my thoughts of the combined terminology of 'acoustic-electric' are that no such thing exists. I would say that most products sold that way are simply acoustic guitars with cheap pickup systems thrown in.
However, multiple-pickup systems like what you have in this guitar, and with what Taylor sells in their 'expression' system, are exceptions to this, in my opinion. You should have lots of tonal variety to what comes out of the pickup. It would be really interesting to hear what it sounds like with one pickup going to left channel and the other going to the right channel.
-Scott
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