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Hey guys and gals,
A lot of you have been down this road before so I figured you might could advise me on what I should do.
I am a somewhat average guitarist and singer by nature and have been trying to learn to play the keyboard here recently. My skills have been less than optimum in my own opinion but I would like try and play in front of a crowd to make me want to try harder.
I recently discussed with an owner of a restaurant that I might could provide entertainment in his establishment as a one man band type of show. I was possibly under the influence at the time because we were all there watching Alabama in the BCS championship football game. Roll Tide!
I told him that I could possibly perform for free initially in his bar (which is probably smaller than my home studio) just to get out and enjoy what I have always wanted to do. He said that he has had karaoke before and would like to try something to get more business in there. He is dating my girlfriend's sister so that is my connection.
I have around 50 original songs that I feel comfortable playing and about the same number of '70-'80's pop/rock cover songs. I don't know if they have the rights for me to play cover songs so I was wondering what the deal was concerning copyrights and such. This might be my way out as I am totally nervous about the whole thing.
My laptop is as old as the dust (anyone remember 16 MG of RAM) so it would not be possible to use it for the gig. I have plenty of options for sound which includes a recently acquired iPod Touch loaded with musical apps (anyone who owns one should check out the available options).
As a musician, where is the line drawn for a karaoke player and a one man band? I have read many threads on other forums concerning backing tracks performed live and how there is no difference to karaoke players (not that there is anything wrong with that).
I figured a bass line, drums, and any other odd instruments(sequenced) playing along with my guitar, keyboard as convenient, and vocals might be enough to distinguish me from a karaoke file player. As I said, this is all new to me and would like to hear from the folks that have been own this road before.
Any and all experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for any advise,
Keebo
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you want to perform and the audience wants to be entertained. If you both get what you want, who cares what label anybody might assign to the activity?
Go for it, have as much fun as possible. Expect that some things may go wrong and have funny one-liners ready to amuse the audience as you recover from it.
No matter how good you get, some people will still criticize. Remember that says more about THEM than it says about YOU. If you were handing out $20 bills, those people would complain that it isn't $50.
Don't be influenced or discouraged by the group of nay-sayers who are really just trying to justify their own lack of accomplishment.
All self actualized people set goals and overcome the obstacles one at a time until the only thing left standing is their success.
Keep us posted.
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Great advice from Pat . . . so the only thing I will ad is that you don't want your gig to turn into a "karaoke" gig. It is your show so don't (in a nice way of course) let your show be taken over by audience members who want you to back them as like in karaoke.
If need be explain how you do your backing tracks and play live music along with them to accompany your vocals. Now PLEASE don't take this as a knock on karaoke dj's but "the ones I have met" could not name 3 chords in any given song if their life depended on it. So if you are using BIAB to arrange your playlist and playing an instrument (either voice or hand held instrument) in my book you are already separated from the average karaoke dj.
But as Pat has already pointed out do not get mixed up in what to call your act, just do it to the best of your ability and of course HAVE FUN!
Break A Leg!
PS: Just curious as to what setup you will use i.e. PA? Speakers? Mixer? etc. etc.
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Quote:
Great advice from Pat . . . so the only thing I will ad is that you don't want your gig to turn into a "karaoke" gig. It is your show so don't (in a nice way of course) let your show be taken over by audience members who want you to back them as like in karaoke.
Danny,
When you perform with your backing tracks, are you saying that people from the audience approach you and ask if they can sing along (hoping to use you as their karaoke machine?)
If so, how do you decline gracefully without making them feel slighted?
Hey, maybe you could turn it into a profit center... let it be known that for just $20 a pop, anybody in the audience can sing along on one song. You might end up making more money that way than you made for the gig!
$20 is low enough that most people will be carrying that much, and its high enough to discourage the casual pests.
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Keebo,
My wife's IPOD touch 8gb works great on WIFI.
I use it to test some of my mobile sites, work great.
Hence the Touch pretty much emulates the iphone.
You might want to try out the server links and apps
with the BIAB system. Dont know much about it but an
idea.
Good luck on your new endeavor, its a whole different world.
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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I am a brand new performer like Keebo so perhaps it is my lack of experiemce but what is wrong with the audience, or even one particular person, singing along with the performer? I love it when it happens. It's certainly better than being ignored. Throwing the word Karaoke around almost sounds like a form of musical snobbery.
Tony
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Expert
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Quote:
I don't know if they have the rights for me to play cover songs so I was wondering what the deal was concerning copyrights and such.
That issue is the venue's problem, not yours. Bars pay a licensing fee to the performance rights groups to use songs out of their catalogs. If the bar has a juke box, then they are already paying licensing fees. I they don't have a blanket license then having a live act might make those license fees go up some.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Quote:
I am a brand new performer like Keebo so perhaps it is my lack of experiemce but what is wrong with the audience, or even one particular person, singing along with the performer? I love it when it happens.
depends on the venue. If you're being well paid, the person who paid you expects a top-notch performance. Once you turn the mic over to a stranger, you're in unknown territory... it might go well.. but probably not. A good friend who is also a musician once observed "if a stranger approaches you at a gig asking if he can sit in, the likelihood that you'll be pleased with the outcome is approximately the same likelihood as eating something you found in a toilet and being pleased with the flavor"
However in an informal party setting where the person who hired you wants to get the guests involved, it might be highly desirable. But there is always the chance that a drunk will swing the mic around by the cord until something breaks, and when that happens, they never offer to reimburse you, they just say "sorry" and walk away. Don't ask how I know this.
Quote:
Throwing the word Karaoke around almost sounds like a form of musical snobbery.
Tony,
I agree completely... to me, music is music.. and the vast majority of patrons don't seem to mind whether their entertainment takes the form of a live band or karaoke or a DJ. But the people who perform all seem to be biased in favor of their own brand of performance. You may as well get used to the snobbery, because it shows no sign of going away any time soon. Just pick a niche , pursue it wholeheartedly and hear all criticism with the understanding that the person is only expressing one person's opinion. A thousand other people may have the opinion that what you're doing is great. In your mind play to the more encouraging group.
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Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
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citation:
y
No matter how good you get, some people will still criticize. Remember that says more about THEM than it says about YOU. If you were handing out $20 bills, those people would complain that it isn't $50.
Don't be influenced or discouraged by the group of nay-sayers who are really just trying to justify their own lack of accomplishment.
All self actualized people set goals and overcome the obstacles one at a time until the only thing left standing is their success.
YEAH !
What a word !
Thank you very much saying that.
I feel it's very deep speach and pretty well dropped !
I'll remember that. And for that I'm gonna write it on a paper and put it in my rooms !
Thank again.
Last edited by Théodoros; 01/21/12 08:56 AM.
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The only thing i will add is that if you do not charge for the gig, you are the one setting your value. If you are not worth paying, it kind of sets the tone your not worth hearing. At the bare minimum make sure he allows a visible tip jar. You should at least make something.
Second, and i know i will take slack on this one, but here it goes. Push your set list of 50 or so covers to somewhere around 75 minimum. There is no problem playing a couple or so originals, but a steady diet can sometimes be a problem, and lose you an audience. Many times original music suffers from two basic issues, 1. it is not really as good as we might feel our precious baby is. and 2. People love to hear memories, be reminded of old times moments, and experiences. hear an old favorite redone. Tossing in a few well placed originals can enhance an evening, relying heavily on them can be a bad thing. Ever go to a club and some guy is playing all the old memories, and then he says here's a original tune i wrote, and he launches into a 7 or 8 minute drone of some dribble from his last divorce! Geezzzzz louise! "Ambaaar! where have you gone guuur?.... Oooohhhh where oh where oh where oh ......." Cricket cricket .....
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Quote:
Ever go to a club and some guy is playing all the old memories, and then he says here's a original tune i wrote, and he launches into a 7 or 8 minute drone of some dribble from his last divorce! Geezzzzz louise! "Ambaaar! where have you gone guuur?.... Oooohhhh where oh where oh where oh ......." Cricket cricket .....
heh heh.. Robh.. sounds like the voice of experience? I take it you've heard this act and lived to regret it?
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The thing about original and cover, I look at it like this. There is a huge difference between playing "a gig" and "a concert". When your gig is something like setting up in the corner at a local dining establishment, then you do copy music all night, meaning songs the people know. That is what that level of listener is expecting.
Now, when you finish your CD and you want to release it, that is a CONCERT, and you book that show at a venue more suited to people sitting in a theater style arrangement, with no doubt that what they are going to hear is your original music that is on the CD (which is also on sale in the lobby, and I'll be out there right after the show to sign the cover art if you like.)
This is where there is typically a HUGE chasm between people who play as a hobby and people who play with an eye to sell product. I spent years in the first group, which in 2 cases overlapped some into the second, and now reside solidly in the second. I honestly don't care to be schlepping gear from bar to bar or chameleon places that are family dining all day and then went to go through some magic metamorphosis and become a rock club at night. That is not a slap at all to people who opt to do so, but it isn't what I want to be when I grow up.
The kind of gig you are describing is the kind where there is no "division" between crowd and talent. That lends itself to people in the category of "everybody is a singer after their third beer" wandering/staggering up into your space, maybe knocking your laptop or iPad over and breaking it. I would make it clear to ownership that this is not open mic night and inform them that unless they agree to be responsible for any damage clearly caused by a patron going where they don't belong that I don't perform. This is my show, and it is not open to people to get drunk and decide to participate. This is why I will never play (and I mean never) in a place that does not have a stage. That stage carries an implied "do not enter" kind of aura and people are not as likely to try and join you.
One guy I know carries sections of collapsible railing that he sets up to make a demarcation point between the crowd and the "stage".
Usually the patrons don't understand that this isn't a party. It's an artist doing his job. He (or she - no sexism here) is working, and much the same as they wouldn't bother the plumber while soldering pipes or the carpenter while cutting wood on his saw, they shouldn't bother the musician either.
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Quote:
Quote:
Great advice from Pat . . . so the only thing I will ad is that you don't want your gig to turn into a "karaoke" gig. It is your show so don't (in a nice way of course) let your show be taken over by audience members who want you to back them as like in karaoke.
Danny,
When you perform with your backing tracks, are you saying that people from the audience approach you and ask if they can sing along (hoping to use you as their karaoke machine?)
If so, how do you decline gracefully without making them feel slighted?
This only happens if the venue is also currently booking karaoke dj's or has in the past as from time to time one of the karaoke patrons might come up and ask, "do you have such and such by and names the artist?" That is your opportunity to tell them that unlike the karaoke dj you do not have a trailer full of cds containing tracks stripped of the original vocals, instead all you have are the backing tracks that you have arranged using BIAB for your show, in a nice way of course.
Hey, maybe you could turn it into a profit center... let it be known that for just $20 a pop, anybody in the audience can sing along on one song. You might end up making more money that way than you made for the gig!$20 is low enough that most people will be carrying that much, and its high enough to discourage the casual pests.
That is a can of worms I prefer to leave closed as I am already getting paid for the gig, and do receive tips for request. In fact that is one of the main reasons I do not play weddings, I guess I am getting too old and just don't have the patience to put up with the drunks who think they do a wonderful rendition of New York New York. Or even worse you get the guy/gal who sings karaoke in bars they are used to "exact" copy backing tracks and with BIAB and especially when we alter arrangements as to not to sound "exactly" like the original it throws them . . . then the conversation turns to "hey dude that is not how the song goes". The other factor involved with guest singers, and it is a big one, they are not prepared, they have to find a song they want to do, test the key etc. etc. and this will take way too much of the time your boss is paying you to perform. The occasional cat who wants to sing, knows the song and his/her key is fine, but the average karaoke singer who wants to go through your playlist to find something will kill your gig.
With this said I love the old adage, if you are not in show business get your feet off of my stage! 
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I knew I would get helpful and experienced advise from this crowd.
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I made some mistakes that I'm trying to rectify.
1. Taking some time off to get through my situation
2. Will charge an amount of money that is typical for what we do. No freebies
3. No "let me play in the background"-"You're too mellow for what we want!"
4. I'm building subs and a 2K amp to push them.
5. I'm going to sound & FEEL like a band.
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Quote:
I made some mistakes that I'm trying to rectify.
1. Taking some time off to get through my situation
2. Will charge an amount of money that is typical for what we do. No freebies
3. No "let me play in the background"-"You're too mellow for what we want!"
4. I'm building subs and a 2K amp to push them.
5. I'm going to sound & FEEL like a band.
Quote:
All self actualized people set goals and overcome the obstacles one at a time until the only thing left standing is their success.
and that's exactly who John is
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Quote:
Hey guys and gals,
A lot of you have been down this road before so I figured you might could advise me on what I should do.
I am a somewhat average guitarist and singer by nature and have been trying to learn to play the keyboard here recently. My skills have been less than optimum in my own opinion but I would like try and play in front of a crowd to make me want to try harder.
I recently discussed with an owner of a restaurant that I might could provide entertainment in his establishment as a one man band type of show. I was possibly under the influence at the time because we were all there watching Alabama in the BCS championship football game. Roll Tide!
I told him that I could possibly perform for free initially in his bar (which is probably smaller than my home studio) just to get out and enjoy what I have always wanted to do. He said that he has had karaoke before and would like to try something to get more business in there. He is dating my girlfriend's sister so that is my connection.
I have around 50 original songs that I feel comfortable playing and about the same number of '70-'80's pop/rock cover songs. I don't know if they have the rights for me to play cover songs so I was wondering what the deal was concerning copyrights and such. This might be my way out as I am totally nervous about the whole thing.
My laptop is as old as the dust (anyone remember 16 MG of RAM) so it would not be possible to use it for the gig. I have plenty of options for sound which includes a recently acquired iPod Touch loaded with musical apps (anyone who owns one should check out the available options).
As a musician, where is the line drawn for a karaoke player and a one man band? I have read many threads on other forums concerning backing tracks performed live and how there is no difference to karaoke players (not that there is anything wrong with that).
I figured a bass line, drums, and any other odd instruments(sequenced) playing along with my guitar, keyboard as convenient, and vocals might be enough to distinguish me from a karaoke file player. As I said, this is all new to me and would like to hear from the folks that have been own this road before.
Any and all experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for any advise,
Keebo
Keebo,
The only way to find out if you will enjoy playing out is to do it. A small bar is a perfect place to get your feet wet. Leave your originals at home. Nobody wants to hear them. No offense; that's just the way it is.
As for the karaoke vs. live debate: the technology has made this a moot point.
Many major "live" acts are using tracks, and that's a fact. Pay no attention to the "purists". They are snobs of the worst sort - usually frustrated weekend warriors who never got a deal, or even an audition for a deal.
You don't sound like you plan on making a life out of this, so just go out and have fun. One thing, though. Make sure you don't make the same mistake that Eddie's band did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjx_GjyXCs4
Regards,
Bob
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Quote:
Leave your originals at home. Nobody wants to hear them. No offense; that's just the way it is.
that depends on the venue and the audience.
Around here I'm seeing more and more places advertising "live original music", and my theory is that they don't want to pay protection money to ASCAP and BMI just to have live music.
The artists would rather play their own songs anyway, and a whole different kind of audience tends to show up when they music is new and fresh.
I'm seeing older crowds that want to relive their youth through the oldies they listened to in early adulthood, and young people whose avant-garde approach to everything including music makes them open to individualism and creativity.
Bring a different set to each audience, and learn to recognize which is which.
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Quote:
Quote:
Leave your originals at home. Nobody wants to hear them. No offense; that's just the way it is.
that depends on the venue and the audience.
Around here I'm seeing more and more places advertising "live original music", and my theory is that they don't want to pay protection money to ASCAP and BMI just to have live music.
The artists would rather play their own songs anyway, and a whole different kind of audience tends to show up when they music is new and fresh.
I'm seeing older crowds that want to relive their youth through the oldies they listened to in early adulthood, and young people whose avant-garde approach to everything including music makes them open to individualism and creativity.
Bring a different set to each audience, and learn to recognize which is which.
I agree. It depends on the venue. The OP is talking about playing in a small bar though, not an open mic or a 'live original music' joint.
Regards,
Bob
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Quote:
Make sure you don't make the same mistake that Eddie's band did.
Until I clicked to the video I was asking myself "Mistakes? What mistakes did I make? Keeping people off the stage is a mistake?"
There is still so much debate about that clip. The "Guitar god Van Halen can do no wrong as long as he continues to play 64th notes in every solo on every song" camp still claims that a guitar tech handed him the wrong guitar and handed him one that was detuned by a half step. I think it was a sample played back at the wrong speed.
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- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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