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Rog, that's makes perfect sense you should have explained about the kids up front. I've done the same thing many times. Sure, a basic PC is "good enough" to get a 14 year old started with this stuff. I don't think I've ever seen a high schooler on this forum asking for advice, I was responding from the point of view of someone new to this stuff who's already an experienced player and is past that phase.
If they advance to the point they want to produce something like what they hear on commercial radio or the internet, then they need something a bit better.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I guess we are arguing sematics, because i have taken this very side many times over at Cakewalk's MC forum, where i spend that better part of 8 years helping newbies setup their system. I have heard the other more experienced users there, tell the new folks that they will never get it going unless they run out and buy a bunch of expensive equipment.
A small Behringer mixer attached to the line in and line out will allow someone to get the process rolling, and do a very decent job. That I agree with, but along that same line (that is how I started by the way) we all know from experience that eventually we realize that a better sound card will make the system more solid, and upgrade the process. Just adding a $149 PCI card (price at that time) made my system purr. I still used the behringer mixer for another 4 years, until one day i bought a Yamaha mixer that i found on the bargain table at Guitar Center. As far as buying a USB interface well, i bought it because it was on sale, and seemed like a good idea at the time. Do i need it, well not really.
Does better gear help you, yes and no, sure it makes the process easier, and you can get better end results, you can have better options, and more choices to use for what you want, but you can do fine without it as well.
I believe you can record and get good results from the PC card/chip, but i believe you get better results from a decent interface. I can build a beautiful home with a hammer and a hand saw, but a compressor, air nailer, and power saw will make it far easier.
For young folks starting out, on a very small budget, ROG ideas are spot on, and i do not want to diminish them at all, he is right on. I have preached this as well. I like oren like the minimalist path for the most part. Nothing i own has been purchased for full price, except my one acoustic guitar. Still having the proper tools sure makes the job easier.
Last edited by Robh; 03/01/12 04:17 PM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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I agree with that too Rob. A similar discussion was going on a few years ago. Someone posted a link to a site where a pro recording engineer did a whole band with just SM57's specifically to shoot down the theory that you have to use expensive mic's. It sounded pretty good, not great but still pretty good, a lot of folks would be happy to get a sound like that. The guy was good, knew how to mix. I have a bag full of mic's including some 57's. Never leave home without them, they're great all around workhorse mic's, I use them mostly for live drums but they do have a distinctive rolloff sound no matter how you post process them. Yeah I know, give me the blindfold test and maybe I couldn't tell which track recorded by the same band was recorded with the 57's and which one with the better mic's but I'm pretty sure I could.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Bob - I have to admit to being a member of the SM57 fan club. There's one million-selling-album singer who used to insist on using an SM57 for studio vocals because it was "his sound". It made me realize that if you want transparency you use a U87, but if you want that "rock singer live on stage" sound you reach for the 57.
ROG.
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I think a good mics and pres are essential. As long as the interface is quiet all is good.
I would never encourage a beginner to start with just anything. If you start by plugging a Nady Starpower mic or their brethren into your on-board sound card, you are going to be discouraged.
With a decent pre, SM-57s are good mics, if that's the sound you are looking for. There are many mics in that range that have differing qualities that would also work to get you started. Some of the MXL condensers and some direct to digital USB mics are good examples.
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I use cheap Behringer 8500 mikes they are 57 knock offs, and i find them to have a slightly warmer sound. I also have a AT 2020 condenser, and it is super smooth and crisp in comparison, but it also picks up every other sound, so I have to really treat my home space to use it.
I have a different take on USB mikes though, i find them troublesome. Since they act as a second sound card they often introduce clock timing issues. I never recommend them especially for newbies, as they really struggle with them.
Great discussion, ROG, thanks for starting it. It is really interesting to hear others thoughts on these things.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
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Good discussion, and interesting points.
My personal experience about the difference happened about two years ago.
Disclaimer: my dual core music computer was purchased seven years ago, so it's not the latest technology.
I was using my EMU 1820M (fairly high end card), but it was crapping out. Searched the multimedia productions forum (where Mac pops in occasionally with excellent advice), and learned that perhaps some capacitors were failing. Took it apart (had nothing to lose - it didn't work), and found several bad caps. But this isn't my story.
When it was out being fixed, I resorted to the onboard sound. It was simply so terrible, that I gave up on music until the EMU was back in operation.
Now, I'm sure that onboard sound has improved as suggested by several here, and maybe my machine just had a "worse than usual" on board sound chip, but I can assure anyone that there was simply no comparison at all in audio quality.
Glenn
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My experience is a little bit similiar to yours Glenn. For playback the best on board chip I've had was on my old Dell with yamaha XG on board. On my computer with the realtec, I thought the playback sound was quite disappointing in comparison regardless of all the settings I tried. Getting my EMU 0404 interface and disabling the realtec was a huge night and day difference for playback. The latest new on board ones must be much better.
Interesting discussion.
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