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Sam,
I hope my comment about the "Strum &Hum" acts did not come across as a criticism for all singer-guitarists. It was made in conjunction with Eddie's observation that the same act, if he would lower himself to add backing tracks, would immediately benefit from a wide variety in his repertoire. Maybe strings in this song, a harp in that one, horns on another.. anything from full orchestra all the way back to the original hum & strum.
Also, it was in the context that the average Hum & Strum performer looks down on musicians who use backing tracks... even when it's clear that the guy is an outstanding musician in his own right. I just don't understand the double standard.
If I may say so... your post indicates that you look down on the use of backing tracks. Why? Even with backing tracks, if the same guy is in front of the mic all night it isn't a karaoke event... karaoke is more like open mic, an event in which anybody in the audience can participate.
On the other hand, if you build a repertoire of songs that you can absolutely NAIL in your performance, and if you can keep the audience interested and/or on the dance floor, then what you are doing is ENTERTAINING.
Entertainment has elements that open mic and karaoke often omit:
1) professional demeanor
2) stage presence
3) preparation of the material
4) consistent quality
5) it's treated as a business, not as a lark or a hobby
you ask for opinions about what you should do. Here's mine:
Accept the fact that times have changed. MANY working musicians now use backing tracks and play along while they sing. You have the gear and the contacts... all you lack is the resolve to treat this as a business and pursue it wholeheartedly. Don't second-guess whether the audience will like it. You've already noted that the audiences listening to Mike Wever and your female friend consistently enjoy their performances. Why would it be different for you?
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I was not offended Pat. Why should I be? Your point is perfectly valid. FWIW, I do NOT look down on backing tracks at all BUT a vocalist with just backing tracks still needs something more - hence the need for dance routines or whatever. That is not MY scene either (no more than using pitch correction software), besides it doesn't fit with ballads and crooning. 'Half playback' is the same as karaoke, is it not? If not, what's the difference? As a matter of fact, I happen to be a damn good singer  but a singer without a band or at least an instrument does not offer much to look at for more than one or two numbers (unless he is doing cartwheels and zooming about all over the place) Furthermore, a solo singer/guitarist will look ok doing Folk with an acoustic but doing Country Rock with an electric and backing tracks? It just won't look right IMHO. To this end, I have been looking for some time now for a female keys player to perform with - I can see THAT working (male guitar and vocals, female keys and harmonies, with or without backing tracks)  As to the 5 elemental differences you propose, I do not see that as a problem rather as a foregone prerequisite
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Strum and hum, in my mind, suffers because there is nothing entertaining to me when a guitar plays a solo and there is no rhythm at all behind it. Thus that kind of act rarely has solos in it. And one voice, playing one sound palette... I find that boring. Poetry over strummed chords.... no energy. Maybe a lot of emotion, but not a lot of energy.
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Quote:
I think a lone guitarist and voice can be very entertaining
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nz8Kd66fyw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2P8mDlXKHc
You can click on any of his videos and be entertained. I'd sit and listen to him live.
Me also but it would be relative to the gig. Yes this guy is a solid guitar player, harp pretty good also and very entertaining as well, but and it's a big one, could he pull off a three - four gig with this setup? I know I could not sit through more than one hour of some cat playing any instrument and singing unless it was a mega talent.
Later,
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We are on the same page here eddie.
Later,
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Well, since my name is mentioned in this thread I might as well add my $ 0.02 to the discussion. First of all: Everything changes. So does music and the musical taste. When Sinatra, Davis Jr, Amstrong etc. where performing they did so with a bigband with up to, what, 25 musicians. That was live. Now some clever guy invented the synthesizer and all of a sudden the horn section and the strings could stay home for the gig. We now have a band with a drummer, bass player, one or two guitar players and a keyboard player. No horns and no strings on stage but they are audible. Are we still live talking live performance? Most will say this is live. OK I also play in a 5 piece band: drums, bass, guitars, keys and vocals. I sing, play guitar and do two songs on keys. Our keyboard player also plays guitar and does backing vocals. We used to have a drummer who could sing very good, so he did the lead vocals for several songs and backing vocals for the rest. Still live performance, agreed? But then the drummer decided to leave the band to do a metal-project. We found a new drummer, but this one does not sing (luckily  ). So I decided to buy a TC Helicon VoiceLive 2. This vocal processor among other things generates harmonies based on the lead vocals and the input of the key set, midi commands or music. So now we have strings, horns and vocals from a box. Are we still live? OK, we're invited to a wedding. The band that's playing consists of o drummer, a keyboard player and a lady singer. We hear a bass guitar, rythm guitar, horns, strings: the works. The keyboard player has a very nice keyboard and uses sequencing. Is this a live performance? I earn most of my living doing solo gigs. I have some $20K worth of equipment with me: sound and lights that most of the times I set-up, operate during the gig and take down myself. The usual gig lasts about 4 hours (with three 15 min breaks). I sing to professional backing tracks. The venues book me to entertain the audience, make them sing, dance, feel good and above all: make them thirsty. I and I alone am responsible for the gig and for the mood of the evening. I have to give 100% of myself every moment of that night; there is no-one to take a solo and thus the attention of the audience. I cannot use a guitar or a keyboard as a shield. It is just me and my microphone. Most of the times I don't even have a stage or a riser so I have to do a dynamite presentation to be noticed at all. It is fricking hard work. But is it a live performance? I think it is. It is me singing, improvising and reacting to the audience. Is it karaoke? No. Karaoke is when backing tracks are played and the lyrics appear on a screen. People from the audience take the microphone and sing one or a couple of songs. Is it a live performance in your opinion or is it something you would enjoy on your night out? That is up to yourself. I do like playing with the band better and it sure as heck is a lot easier performing with the band standing behind me. But when I drive home after a succesful solo gig and I have made the crowd gone wild all on my own.....yes, it makes me feel good. That and the pay is a lot better on solo gigs.... A man's gotto eat you know.
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DJs, karaoke performers, backing track musicians, and bands all share one important skill. The ability to read the audience, play what they need, and adapt the songs to their changing moods. This skill is the main reason why I don't do set lists. I'm not clairvoyant enough to know what the audience is going to want 3 songs from now, much less an entire set. I look at these artists as competitors, but not much differently from other musicians. I treat them as equals and we have mutual respect for each other. We're in the same business, trying to get a piece of the market and survive in these tough economic times. We each have our own formula for doing it, based on our personal talents, skills, and chosen market venues. There is more than one right way to make music. We all have the same common enemy, TV - which isn't live at all - and is the main reason why people don't go out for entertainment like they used to. And TV isn't even a true entertainment medium - it's a sales medium disguised as an entertainment medium. Plus it's the biggest drug addiction in the USA (and many other countries). The brain even emits Alpha and Theta waves similar to both a drug experience and hypnosis which the marketers use to plant those "buy this" post-hypnotic suggestions in the drug user's brain. They spent tons of money researching and testing the science of this and using it to their advantage. Do you want to get your spouse to quit buying useless products like those pajama jeans, or useless 20 in one tool that will sit in the shed forever, or "frankenfood" that will just make you fat -- just turn of the TV. I know I'm repeating what I've said before: Back when TV was black and white with narrow bandwidth audio and a 2" speaker, people had to go out for entertainment. Then TV turned color but still had narrow bandwidth audio, the entertainment factor of the tube was still lame. Now we have HDTV with surround sound PLUS a cable TV subscription that can easily top $200 per month (there goes the entertainment budget) and it's no wonder people don't go out as often as they used to. I still don't know the answer to "What constitutes live performance?" but I'm finding the thread interesting anyway. If anyone knows how to get the people to "Just say 'NO' to TV" and get them back in the clubs where they belong, let me know. I'll join the movement as long as nobody gets hurt
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
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Quote:
I'm disppointed you weren't alreay booked for New Years (if you are playing out regularly still).. but happy it all turned out well. Sounds like fun, and those are the best kind of gigs. Especially if they pay well.
Actually I still play out a fair amount but I have backed off a bit on New Years gigs. My lady has to stay home and it's barely worth it. Most good players I know get a minimum of $500 for those gigs and some of the offers to me have been less than that. A few years ago instead of me doing a gig we saw Big Bad Voodoo Daddy at the Disney Concert Hall in downtown LA. I splurged for front row seats. Great show. This gig I described was strictly a favor for a friend and it was only booked for $250 each and we got a $100 tip so it was $300 and about a 75 mile drive. He lived a lot closer to it than I did. Still fun though.
Bob
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Notes,
In all do respect and while I do partly subscribe to the theory that good TV (is that an oxymoron) make that great TV "Screens and Sound"" are keeping people out of clubs. I think you are blaming too much of the non-hiring of bands on TV alone. Case in point club owners, other than sports bars are not putting large screens up in their establishments to entertain their patrons, they are hiring DJ's or single and duo acts for two reasons:
#1. DJs have already proven that you don't need a big band, 4-6 pieces to motivate and entertain a crowd.
#2. Because of #1 their payout is way smaller than paying a larger group.
I may be way off base but to me it's simple economics, they are spending as little as they have to while still pleasing their patrons.
Later,
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Ad to that the fact that a band requires you to pay attention to them, and a DJ just wants you to dance and have fun, the song does not matter it is the driving beat that keeps the crowds focused on themselves, and each other.
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Citaat:
Ad to that the fact that a band requires you to pay attention to them,
Ever heard of backingtracks that masked your mistake by extending a solo, taking the lead or even sing the right lyrics when you blanked out?
Let me tell you, it is waaayyy easier and less scary to play with other musicians than to do it on your own.
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Good point Mike, but i was talking about entertainment side of it. When a band is playing they are the focal point, when a DJ plays, you are the focal point, and the young lady with the real short skirt!
That is why clubs like DJs, they keep the crowd involved as a large group.
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The other part of this is the music itself. I've mentioned before I will sometimes grit my teeth and listen to the pop radio stations for a while just to hear what's there. So much of it is completely studio created, no live players that I could hear except for some synth parts. Especially the "drum" tracks behind the poptart singers including Madonna who's no longer a tart that's for sure. Those whatever you call them tracks are certainly not drums as we know them. They're highly processed/gated/compressed sound effect parts I guess you could call them. No live band is going to do that stuff without using tracks as part of their show. Much easier and cheaper to simply use a DJ to play the original or remixed tracks. That's another thing, remixing. I don't get it and never followed it but I'm seen references to remixing contests at some clubs. I guess they have some stuff that is broken out to separate tracks and somebody gets to come up and run the mixing console? Or maybe they get to combine parts of different songs? I don't know but it's certainly entertainment to young people.
Bob
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Quote:
and the young lady with the real short skirt!
And that my friend is how I always new when the stage was level . . . as the keyboard player would drool out of both sides of his mouth. 
Later,
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Quote:
I think a lone guitarist and voice can be very entertaining.
No denying he has talent, but I would make it through maybe one cranberry and soda and be out the door. Old copy songs dummied down for one guitar are not what I'd really go to see too often. I see that kind of performing more for sitting around the campfire when everybody is in the "Oh how cool you play guitar" mode. This guy isn't exactly going to headline at The House of Blues (and he doesn't want to - that's not the point). It all depends on what you consider "a gig". I am not in the group who plays just to play. I want the big stage, the bright lights, the big house PA.... Those kind of gigs are few and far between, so that's when I play.... few and far between.
All personal taste though.
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Actually he is not dumbing down the guitar, he is complicating up the guitar to cover more of the song than the guitarist would cover in a full band. He is lead and backing guitar all in one with a touch of bass thrown in. Still you point is taken. It really comes down to what you want to hear, and play. Me personally i do not want full 5 piece band commitment. I want to play for a few folks, and play what i like to play the way i want to play it.
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I confess to not having read other then the original post and a couple beyond. To me it's live if there's a live person on stage. As to Rachel's and bob's x 2 comments. It's like being just a little bit pregnant. No such thing. I don't care if you use just one backing track your in the same boat as the guy using 20.
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Way to put it captain subtle! John i will be laughing at that the rest of the day!
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- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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