PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Other chords shortcuts

In the Support section of the PG Music site, the list of chords recognized by BIAB, RB & PT is updated as per date Monday, 31 dec 2012.
At the end of the document, it shows shortcuts for some chords using J/H/D and S letters.
I just give here the information for all BIAB users : you can also use these extra four following shortcuts :
cf shortcut for entering C7b9
cu for C(blues)
cl for C7alt
cn for C7#9.
They work fine, but look as unofficial…unless PG people add them someday.

Thanks....but what is a "C (blues)" chord????? Quite a lot of chord forms are used in blues.

Thanks,
Jim

Likely subs 7 or 9 chords, Jim, maybe a 13th at turnaround.


--Mac

A good way to cipher BIAB chords is to use the PMOSIMP4 style (in Classical). In this style the the chords are just simply banged out on beat 1 (or when there is a chord change), the root being played on the guitar part while the other notes on the piano - so just watch the dual keyboards or inspect lead sheet view. So with these four new chords in C, here's whats up (I'd say they need some work):

cf for C7b9 - C Bb Eb G
cu for C(blues) - C G C E (not to bluesy)
cl for C7alt - C B Bb Eb E Ab
cn for C7#9 - C Bb D E G (should Db, not D?)

Kelso, I’m a little confused with your chords. I was taught this:

C7b9 – C E G Bb Db
C7#9 – C E G Bb D#
C7 alt – C E Gb or G# Bb Db or D#

I’ve never heard of a C(blues) chord. What you have listed I was taught as a C chord – C E G.

MarioD has it correct as far as the simple closed chord spelling should be.

It is very common in Blues and Jazz chording to not play the V note of the chord, though.

I don't think that using one of the Classical styles to find out the voicing for a jazz chord is going to come out right at all. The way the Stylemaker works seems to preclude that. A Classical style therefore is going to pick note stacks that suit, well, Classical music.


--Mac

C7b9 - C Bb Eb G

A C7 with a minor third?? But we all know BAIB plays what it will and 99% of the time it seems to sound darn good. What may appear as an off-note is simply a transition to create and release tension. If you don't like it, regen or edit the midi.

Mario - I'm just reporting what BIAB is playing when I use the method I describe using the shortcuts of the OP. I agree with your formulation, and noted my disagreement with two of the four. Also, keep in mind (if you are hung up by the order I reported) this is just the voicing BIAB uses in the style I used.

Kelso thanx for replying. I am not hung up on the order just confused about the individual notes.

Having a flatted third, Eb in this case, would make it a minor. Are there other notes prior to or after that chord that would make it a transition chord as Dan has suggested? Just curious that’s all.

Have you regenerated the chord? If so does it always yield an Eb? If so it may be a bug and should be reported.

I suppose that BIAB could be playing a #9 (not b9) by playing that upper Eb and leaving out the major third.

Anyway, I use the Shift+ENTER keystroke to audition a chord. If the RealTrack playing that chord sounds very different, then Mario has a good point - it may be a bug.

Yes Mac, almost all guitarist knows the E7#9 as the Jimi chord!

I know that an Eb and D# are enharmonic tones. Maybe I’m totally wrong but when I see a C-Eb-G-Bb regardless of where they lay in the chord structure I think of a Cm7. But if I see a C-E-G-Bb-D# with or without the third or the fifth and again in any order I think of a C7#9. Again both chord could be in open or closed chord spelling and in any inversion.

Am I wrong on thinking that an Eb is different than a D# when used like this? I ask because to me a D# is a #9 while an Eb is a flatted third.

Thanx for your time.

Your guitar tuner should show you that Eb and D# are the same identical note, with the same number of cycles per second.

The use of the sharp or flat is only a matter of human perception in order to use our present day notation system and have it make sense. It is a good system.

When dealing with some of the chords that have extensions outside the octave, it is necessary to know the full rule set involving those chords.

Spelling such chords in closed position is a good starting point towards understanding, but in actual use, other factors are observed.

Spelling of a C7#9 chord in the closed position yields, C,E,G,Bb,D#.

That is a rather "dense" sound and contains the 5 of the chord, which when played along with the root, generates another root that is one octave lower than the actual root played, at half amplitude. Rock guitarists take advantage of that effect, known for centuries to organists and composers as the "Resultant". Jazz players typically avoid the Resultant with good reason, use of such will "muddy" things too much and result in more of a clash than something harmonious.

So, again in closed spelling, we drop the Dominant (5) note: C,E,Bb,D#.

Try playing both on a keyboard and listening to the difference. Without the 5 in there, the chord takes on an "airiness" that is harmonically desirable.

Now let's look at two of the popular guitar voicings for the 7#9 chord:

Switching to key of E, for the "Jimi" example, a first position E7#9 chord spells out as: E,B,D,G#,D,E the way Jimi often fingered it, or 1,5,7,3,7,#9. But he may have fingered the chord with the 5 in it, but watch some videos to see how he PLUCKS it -- often hitting the low E and then skipping the B, but playing from that 3 up for the echo or top of the chord.

Another good E7#9 on the guitar is found at the 7th fret, an "inside" chord, meaning that it takes place on the four strings that are inside the two E strings, is:

(Frets 7,6,7,8) -- which is E,G#,D,G or 1,3,7,#9. This one is often used by Jazz players, as well as R&B and Soul guitarists.

On the piano or organ, one of my favorite grabs for a 7#9 is even sparser. The RH plays, 3,b7,#9. If I'm playing by myself, then the LH plays the root. I like the "clean" sound this voicing provides with the use of only the one hand for most of the notes. If I'm wanting it to be open, then I might play the tritone with LH, say, 3 and b7 (or b7 and 3) and play the #9 with RH -- and now that we are safely an octave or more above the root, I might add the 5 in the RH, above the #9, or reverse those two such that the chord is even more open and the #9 is on top with the 5 below it.

When notating for others to read, I often use the Eb as the Sharp Nine on a chart that is in the key of C. This is not harmonically correct, of course, but it makes for a faster read by not confusing musicians by having both sharps and flats as accidentals in the same piece or passage. If there are already flats involved, I use the flat. No, it likely won't get you a good grade in school to do that, but I'm always about making for the easiest read possible out in the real world.

Errol Garner's "Misty" is originally written such that the first three notes, "Look at me..." are a Bb, G, and D in his original key of Eb, all played over an Ebmaj7 chord. Try playing it the second time around like this: Ebmaj7, E7#9, Ebmaj7. That's a great example of how Bill Evans would use the Sharp Nine as a transition chord. The E7#9 here combines the Tritone Sub for a Bb7 chord (the turnaround chord for Eb), which is the 7 and 3 of Bb - but also the 3 and 7 of E, with the G note of the melody. Way cool.

--Mac

Thanx Mac for your time and explanation. So much to learn so little time!

Thanx for the Misty tip. I tried it and it sounds great on a solo guitar!