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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2012
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Hey all! Good day. I have this book 'Outliers' by Malcolm Gladwell. Very interesting to me. Here is a link: http://www.wisdomgroup.com/report/10000_hours_of_practice/10,000 hours of practice to achieve mastery in any given subject. True or no, I like the idea and Malcolm takes a pragmatic approach to his research. Now the term 'mastery' can be overused, abused and perhaps mis-used. So take it with a grain.  So for you and me and our chosen professions or instruments it breaks down roughly to this: 3 hours per day for 9 years. 4 hrs per day for 7 years. 5 hrs per day for 5.5 years. 6 hrs per day for 4.5 years. When I see it like this (those are my own rough calculations) it does not seem so daunting. It is only int he real-life, real-time, day to day that we need our discipline or focus. His basic premise is that it takes getting to a point where 'practice' becomes the way of life and ultra enjoyable. Makes sense. Here is wishing you all some self mastery in some way today! Cheers!!
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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I think I could handle the 3 hours a day for nine years, but I don't think I have the years left. I'm not even buying green bananas these days! 
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: May 2000
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
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))) I think I could handle the 3 hours a day for nine years, but I don't think I have the years left.
Keep in mind that we're not starting from scratch, so it should hopefully be less than 10,000 - assuming that we "get credit for time served."
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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When I was a youngster I spent 4 years earning a black black in Shotokan Karate. I estimate on average 4 hours every day for the 4 years resulting in 5700 hours. Later in life I attend graduate school for 5 years at an average of 8 hours per day for a total 14,240 hours to earn my Ph.D..
Maybe estimating on the high side since I did do my share of partying over those years, but you get the point, to reach any goal worth achiveing it takes a lot of time.
Later yet in life I have now spent 20 years playing this old guitar. I have no awards, no degrees, nothing to hang on the wall. I can't even guess at how many hours I have spent with this guitar on my lap and in my head. But looking back over my life it is one of my most enjoyable and proud achievements. Time Well Spent.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 175
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OP
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Quote:
I think I could handle the 3 hours a day for nine years, but I don't think I have the years left. I'm not even buying green bananas these days!
LOL!! That is funny to me.
Quote:
))) I think I could handle the 3 hours a day for nine years, but I don't think I have the years left.
Keep in mind that we're not starting from scratch, so it should hopefully be less than 10,000 - assuming that we "get credit for time served."
That's a great point. I think 'time served' is pivotal. I think many of us know more (have acquired more) than we may believe. It just takes something to bring it all together sometimes. I also think it is probably rare to find someone who genuinely wants to pursue one idea so rigorously. Speaking only for myself I have equally important and enjoyable passions that can divide my attention. I really enjoy studio work with other artists or working on 'tone' for myself or others or family time. In those times I am not playing but I am equally fulfilled. I have observed this in others as well.
I also believe with the age and speed of information today, we can gain access to ideas and implement ideas faster than many of those referenced in this book. Today's rapid information can hinder our progress also I believe if we get caught up in the infinite quagmire of the internet. Or...hanging out in forums! LOL!
Cheers!
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,975
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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>> I also believe with the age and speed of information today, we can gain access to ideas and implement ideas faster than many of those referenced in this book.
Yes, I agree.
BTW, how many hours total have you put in in this current current country guitar woodshedding project?
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2012
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OP
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Quote:
>>
BTW, how many hours total have you put in in this current current country guitar woodshedding project?
Thanks for the Dialogue Peter.
I have to type it out. (Edited: Removed Unneeded Details)I would say about 340 hours so far considering so much time has been spent putting my studio back together, re-acquiring guitars, amps, pedals, tools, learning new software etc.
The real woodshedding begins in April....
Yep, about 340 hours...give or take.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: May 2000
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PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
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>>> Yep, about 340 hours...give or take
Well that's great progress, esp. for 340 hours. And to be clear, before these 340 hours, you had other music and guitar experience, but not much country guitar soloing - is that correct?
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 28
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
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Posts: 28 |
Great points from all. I retired 3 yrs ago and decided to take on the guitar. Practiced daily until my fingers said stop, started lessons via YouTube, bought some DVD lessons. Soon, some said I sounded pretty good. Then I purchased BAIB thinking I could make some incredible music with the help of real tracks. LOL man was I ever humbled. I love BAIB but wish they had a user seminar or live class somewhere.
BAIB 2012
Studio One 2 Pro
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 175
Apprentice
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OP
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Quote:
>>> Yep, about 340 hours...give or take
Well that's great progress, esp. for 340 hours. And to be clear, before these 340 hours, you had other music and guitar experience, but not much country guitar soloing - is that correct?
Thank you Peter.
Yes. Indeed. I have a very broad skill set and lots of 'musical experience, "time served" so to speak to pull from. Just not on Electric guitar.
Cheers!
(Edited by THR)
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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busy computing the hours, can I add the hours spent in the forum as well?
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
BIAB 2026W + RB
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Epiphone Sheraton, Ibanez 12str, Washburn 6str, Cort 6Str Nylon
Yanagisawa Tenor Sax
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Quote:
I think I could handle the 3 hours a day for nine years, but I don't think I have the years left. I'm not even buying green bananas these days!
Do you eat a banana while watching your favorite news show... 30 minutes?
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Quote:
10,000 hours of practice to achieve mastery in any given subject
Mastery implies that there is nothing left to learn. The question must be - do we ever really master anything, or do we just keep on learning until we die?
Just a bit of philosophy to add to the mix...
ROG.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Quote:
Quote:
10,000 hours of practice to achieve mastery in any given subject
Mastery implies that there is nothing left to learn...
ROG.
I have personally never seen that definition or implication. I don't believe mastery is gauged by perfection. That wouldn't be real or practical. It is just based on a certain standard of excellence in any given field. Perhaps an ambiguous standard sometimes, but there is a foundation nonetheless.
Speaking only from my own experience, anyone great enough to be considered a 'master' of any subject or craft has reached the understanding and a realization (inevitable through the process of becoming) that there is never an end to learning. They all understand just how many limits they are operating under despite their achievements. That is in part what makes the greats so great. Always maintaining a beginners mind 'philosophically' speaking.
My personal answer to your question would be...yes and no . I think the definitions of 'mastery' allow for both. We get to become masters at our craft and yet always there is infinitely more to learn. Hopefully we never stop questing for more.
Cheers!
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Does this help?
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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That was crystal clear  Cheers, Mike
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 175
Apprentice
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OP
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Quote:
Does this help?
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say, we know there are some things we do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know.
This is a very practical and classic wisdom. I have been a firm believer in being present to this insight, if possible, ...when I find myself acting like the hind end of a mule...or just a hind end.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Quote:
I have personally never seen that definition or implication
The Oxford English Dictionary - "To master: to acquire complete knowledge of".
Hence my observation - nothing left to learn. Seriously, though, I didn't mean to be critical. Just stirring the pot.
ROG.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Mirriam Webbster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/master Funny how different cultures have different meanings for certain words. It's like it was a different language or something. /Those French; they have a different word for everything!
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Hi rharv.
Good point. Even the Oxford's use of the phrase "complete knowledge" becomes meaningless when you consider, as Jazzmandan pointed out, that there are things that we don't know, that we don't know we don't know.
AAARGH. This is making my head spin!
ROG.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don’t know we don’t know.
At least you know there are things you don't know you don't know.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Quote:
Quote:
I think I could handle the 3 hours a day for nine years, but I don't think I have the years left. I'm not even buying green bananas these days!
Do you eat a banana while watching your favorite news show... 30 minutes?
I don't watch news shows anymore. History just keeps repeating itself - only the names change.
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Festus Hagan Said it best: "Well Mathew, how do you know if you know something... if you don't know whether you know if you know it or not"?? 
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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Just a point of view.
I am a multi instrumentalist, what I have learnt is that you dont need to "master an instrument" in order to sound good and have fun. Sure you do need musicality - good timing and an understanding of how to fit in with a sound, but you can even on a fast moving tune, get away with something simple and effective. You can go a long way with simple triads.
Its all in the approach, dont learn complex guitar riffs of by heart to begin with, learn some harmony basics then get those triads moving over a chord, and you'll soon be dancing.
A maxim I have developed is 'if you can learn something simpler, then learn that first'.
BTW I dont mean to say that you should not master your instrument, just that you dont need to, to get a good sound. You can get something going sooner than you think.
Zero
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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What you practice is at least as important as how long you practice.
Performing also really sharpens your skills - that's when you find out how good you really are.
10,000 hours in the woodshed going over the same old licks isn't the best way to go - and it sure doesn't sound like fun!
Cheers!
Cheers! -Alastair
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Woodshedding - Learning to Play!
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OP
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Quote:
What you practice is at least as important as how long you practice.
Performing also really sharpens your skills - that's when you find out how good you really are.
10,000 hours in the woodshed going over the same old licks isn't the best way to go - and it sure doesn't sound like fun!
Cheers!
I agree. And for clarity Alistair, the idea certainly isn't 10,000 hrs. of wood-shedding or practicing 'the same old licks'. Honestly that isn't practical / realistic in pursuing mastery of any kind and wouldn't produce results. In this case it is just the contrary. Malcolm uses the idea of practice as a point of importance in regards to anyone's chosen field. For musicians, the 'mechanics' are a must, there is no way around the practice time. As an 'artist' on the other hand, we can be medicore or OK or adequate musicians, but generate great works as a songsmith, producer etc.. I have always differentiated between and artist and musician as I spent years as an artist and now am working at becoming a competent musician.
The truth is, for those who love their work or rather have passion in their work, the hours come simply by day to day engrossment. Only a few are so fortunate to have found a clear vision for their loves and have made it their careers. These are often the ones who are considered truly masters in their fields. Passionate Scientists spend countless hours in the lab...many days without days off, not just 8-10 hrs and go home. Some architects are that way, psychologists, golfers etc. Making our 'practice' or our work our way of life is the premise.
Have a great week!~
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