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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Apr 2005
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OK. Here's a chance for EVERYBODY to chime in. I've been playing drums for 45 yrs, and recording other digital audio for 25. Although, I've rubbed elbows, and am respected by VERY accomplished musicians, I don't claim to know even half as much as the reams of volumes that others have already forgotten. I've never had one formally taught course, or lesson. All I know is that other extremely capable, and experienced musicians that have heard my work, and mixes has always complimented my work. As far as reverb, some of them say "Well, I might not put quite as much reverb, but I don't think your mix is "WRONG", or distasteful, or illustrates a particular incompetence, or ignorance about how to apply reverb. SOO, having said that, is there any consensus, or general rule that I'm not aware of for applying reverb, other than your EAR? PLEEZE bleed all over this. KC
i7-12650H CPU, 32Gig RAM/Win 11 Pro. PreSonus 1824C, Native Instr S88 Mk1, ATOM SQ, PreSonus Sphere, Sonar Platinum, SampleTank4, BIAB 2023.
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Old rule of thumb, add reverb until you hear it, then back it off a notch!
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Quote:
Old rule of thumb, add reverb until you hear it, then back it off a notch!
+1 for that.
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Another +1 for a general rule. It really depends on the sound you're after. Reverb waxes and wanes in popular music like length of skirts and width of ties. Personally I'm glad it's back "in" now to use it a little heavier than overly dry. BTW, cool name King Conga. 
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I think it depends on whether you're trying to simulate a natural environment, or using it as an effect. For a natural environment, I don't think the listener should be aware that reverb is being applied, which is really just the general rule as described above.
As an effect, like the Phil Collins snare drum in the 80s, then anything goes. As Josie says, a lot of it is down to fashion, which is why when you listen to some tracks the reverb will tell you which decade it's from.
ROG.
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You wanted opinions. I think ROG has it right. It all depends on the desired outcome. If I WANT to feel like drums are thundering in a cavernous room, I have to hear the reverb (Think the opening drums on Big Country's In a Big Country from The Crossing) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYxuH6LH-DIIf I'm making an 'intimate' acoustic track, then the back it off till you don't hear it idea applies. If I'm using synth patches in an electronic track, then I almost always juice the reverb till it's obvious. Reverb can be used in so many different ways; bring the listener closer or put them farther away from the source, etc. Here's another example: Sampled piano is almost always close-mic'ed. If you mix it in to a track where there is reverb on other instruments, then it's going to sound in-your-face and out of place. Dial up the reverb and dial down the direct sound to set it back into the mix. I do this almost always for the pianos that are in Garritan Personal Orchestra and the excellent 'Splendid' soundfont from Akai. Also, there's bunches of different types of reverbs - THESE can lead you to a decade as much as anything else. Spring, plate, room simulation, etc. As for drums for tracks that have very little to no reverb; pretty much any of Steely Dan's stuff from the 70's are about as dry as you can get. Listen to Hey Nineteen, drums are dusty dry. However, tasty reverb on the EP and synth leads, vox. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipc9pL27krs Nothing says 'the 70's' to me more than dead dry drums. This song by Steely Dan could easily be the theme song to the Barney Miller show. http://www.televisiontunes.com/Barney_Miller.html (Which I think includes Carol Kaye on the juiciest bass-line to ever grace a TV show theme) So, sorry there's no right answer. It is probably one of the most abused effects.
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>...So, sorry there's no right answer. It is probably one of the most abused effects. ..>>
Amen, and amen. If there is a rule to follow its the general rule stated above. But then there are lots of cases and instances where the rule is successfully broken. I guess what I do is follow the rule first, and then add reverb in cases where I have a specific reason to add some space. Or...I'll roll off the reverb further if I want to create the illusion of whispering in your ear.
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You may find some helpful information in the reverb section of this link http://pghboemike.wordpress.com/2013/03/24/digital-music-production/
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I've always loved all kinds of reverb, love the way it can quickly "tail off"
The Lexicon LXP-1 is an old (1980s) half-rack reverb unit that studios still use today. The LXP-1 was discontinued a long time ago, but even with today's standards, it sounds fantastic.
I also have the LXP-5 for a complete "plate" of reverbs...
And that old Lexicon Vortex has entranced the audiences along with the little blue box,
Jam Man...
My ears are always ringing...guess I blew them out listening to Theoloneus Monk.
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Plus, BIAB 2015 and Sonar Platinum 2015 Upgrade from Cakewalk's Sonar X-3
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A little dab will do ya.
Trax
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Quote:
A little dab will do ya.
Trax
Agreed. That's the trick.
Cheers,
Mike
Cheers, Mike My Music * Asus ROG Strix G15CF 32 GB DDR4 4TB HDD + 1 TB SSD NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 8GB Win 11 AKAI EIE PRO Sound Interface. BIAB/RB 2024 UltraPak Build - Latest
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Ballads can handle more than an uptempo number, generally, but there is really no hard and fast rule to that; as a lot of the rock of the 50's, ballad or uptempo; were smothered in verb, **tip for verb: If the verb has a highpass filter cut around 250hz. For a ballad use a hall or chamber verb, the decay for a ballad runs from 2-4ms, predelay set to tempo of song or in chopped up increments rounded up. example 85 tempo might divide in 4th and set predelay to 22ms, half 43ms etc. settings below the songs tempo up to the tempo will give a fuller sound, much like doubling. uptempo numbers use a plate, room or a bright chamber with a .1 to .5ms decay, predelay higher 100-250ms. Once again set your predelay by the tempo of the song. Once again these are just tips, no hard and fast rule. It is really the way you want the song to sound. One reason not to go overboard with the reverb though is when the song is mastered the compressors can play havoc on the sound. Also watch eqing after adding reverb as this can cause very unpleasant sounds. Hope this is helpful!
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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I may be an outlier but, in general, I see reverb as a way to allow the vocal or instrument to bleed into the overall mix. Of course I want each track to stand on it's own but then have its edges lost in the mix. I realize I'm not articulating this well! And since I try to give my mixes a live feel I may be biased. Like a live jam in a good room I use reverb to let all the tracks settle in the mix and yet sound distinct when it's their turn. When I'm mixing I just can't separate myself from many years of great living room jams.
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"Old rule of thumb, add reverb until you hear it, then back it off a notch!" Yup, I live by this, but I have a VERY difficult time hearing Reverb so I am usually too loud by any standard.  But by using short Delays I can get the "space" I am looking for without worrying about washing something out, because I can hear the delay a lot easier. And it helps keep the mix uncluttered as well...  Works for me! 
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IMO....just to add to what others have stated.
Reverb is not always necessary in any final mix not to mention the dated cliche of 'less is more'.
The fewer the instruments in a mix the more a reverb choice can be acceptable/appropriate.
The use of reverb is over used much of the time and many think it can mask less than stellar original tracks.
That's my quick take on it....carry on.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 05/04/13 11:12 AM.
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